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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    The mentally ill are much much MUCH more likely to have violence DONE to them than commit violence.

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  • PMárk
    replied
    Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post

    They also cause crime and violence, and are carrying and using firearms, proportionally more often.
    Could you please give a link to a serious, non-partizan, factual study, regarding the topic? Or a good site with statistics?

    Not asking to be contrary, I'm genuinely interested in the facts behind this. I just want to know, if the notion that minorities in the US (or really, anywhere in the first world, like Great Brittain, Germany, France, etc.) are having a proportionally bigger problem with gun violence and illegal gun usage, than the majority population, is true, or not, based on hard numbers, not just perception.

    If no, then, it seems to be really a quasi-racist ingrained prejudice in the police, from there. If, however, yes, that asks a lot of other social and economical questions which wouldn't be solved by not talking about it.

    Also, it's just a hunch, but I don't think mentally ill people are just feared, because regular people, including cops, feel they couldn't trust in their reactions and that is highly stressfull, thus, they leave a hard impression, but I don't think it's really a big portion of crime and violence, especially firearm usage.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Ventrue Life View Post
    On another note: Since when did "Malkavian" become synonymous to "mentally ill"? Isn't the whole point of the Malkavians that their insanity is supernatural and alien in nature? Isn't the fact that we are comparing that to real mental illnesses the real problem?

    This problem is approached from completely the wrong direction and, if approached from the right angle, can actually be solved super easily. We need to get rid of the idea that Malkavian madness is (or should be) somehow related to real mental illness, and instead make it abundantly clear that the Malkavian's madness is supernatural in nature and has absolutely nothing to do with real mental illness. After doing that, we can do whatever we want with the Malkavians, we can make them as fishy as we want.
    That is literally what they did in 5th Edition.

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  • PMárk
    replied
    Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post
    I think as originally written the Ravnos were rather stereotypical but I believe there is a good concept there that has never been realized. Its fine to say Ravnos embrace from among the Roma stock occasionally and draw some inspiration from that. People love the Setites for their Egyptian motif and Giovanni are quite popular so there is nothing inherently wrong with drawing similar lines with the Ravnos and in fact it can be virtuous to highlight the positives of a traditionally misunderstood culture.

    I think obviously where they went wrong is with their weakness. Saying all ravnos are liars and thieves and then tying it to a racial group is a recipe for disaster. If it had been along the lines of the V20 Dark Ages weakness all along where they are compelled to indulge in their virtue or vice as well as broadening the clan background as they did to include indian, eastern European, and maybe even more Asian influences you could have a much deeper clan that would not be shunned as much as they have been historically. To me its a don't throw the baby out with the bathwater scenario and I hope the stigma attached to the Ravnos lessens in the future.
    Agree.

    Generally, I'm glad I came in with Revised and left out the more... let's say, unrefined parts of the lore.

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  • PMárk
    replied
    Originally posted by GenerallyConfused View Post

    I think you'd have to ask the people who are saying that. I've never thought they were actually meant to be "real gypsies". In much the same way that other clans are based on loose stereotypes, any adult can easily see the difference. I bought the gypies book, it was hilariously bad.
    Same here.

    There are plenty of Romani people around here, where I live. I got that the Ravnos, as their most shallow, most stereotypical corebook depiction were basically the trickster gypsi archetype. Never got me to judge real-world people aroud me in accordance to it. Also, let's face it: it's a popular archetype.

    But surprise-surprise, not every Italian is an incestous banker either. I'm able to handle archetypes/tropes for what they are, not as a generalization of real people.

    Hell, maybe as an in-world lore, the said archetype might be the result of the Ravnos' influence, not the other way around.

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