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  • Izhim-ur-Baal

    I was re-reading Children of The Night to take on some characters concepts for inspiration or even to use in my chronicle and while re-reading Izhim-ur-Baal entry I couldn't fail to notice once again how his stats are weak if you take into account his age and if you compare him with other characters even from COTN itself. I mean you don't even have to take Jalan-Aajav as an example, but for the sake of this thread I'm going to take it. Jalan is less than 1000 years old while Izhim-ur-Baal is almost 7000 years old and look at their stats!

    What do you guys think of it and what would you do about it to fix it?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
    while re-reading Izhim-ur-Baal entry I couldn't fail to notice once again how his stats are weak if you take into account his age and if you compare him with other characters even from COTN itself.
    You should take into account Izhims imprisonment/torture/torpor/whatever in Chorazin for about 6 centuries which could/should have had an impact on his development/abilities. He even is described as having lost his Assamite skin color, so maybe it drained his abilities as well?

    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
    I mean you don't even have to take Jalan-Aajav as an example, but for the sake of this thread I'm going to take it. Jalan is less than 1000 years old while Izhim-ur-Baal is almost 7000 years old and look at their stats!

    What do you guys think of it and what would you do about it to fix it?
    Yeah, he's not really suitable for a comparison. If you go with the Quarakh-Origin, he's got the blood and quite possibly the abilities of a 4th gen Methuselah backing him (some of his lesser discipline stats even hint to a Ventrue). You could also argue, that he is a fighter, whereas Izhim is a scholar and kind of a recluse. So age alone would not be the appropriate category to compare these two (and their stats).

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    • #3
      Assuming Jalan Aajav is the same as Qarakh then he diabelrized Alexander of Paris and got his abilities. Not to mention the countless other vampires he probably diabelrized throughout the centuries. He was kinda famous for eating other vampires. So you really shouldn't see him as a regular 800+ year old vampire.
      Last edited by blackshade; 05-05-2019, 07:43 AM.

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      • #4
        Alexander was 1900 years old when he was diablerized.
        By the time Alexander was embraced, Izhim was already a Methuselah 4100 years old.

        Even more:Aajav hasn't the exlcusive on diablerie, we are talking of a 7000 years old ASSAMITE WARRIOR on the Path of Blood.


        Izhim stats should be shockingly high, besides, he is not just a scholar, but also the mightiest of the Shakari of the Black Hand, he is the top assassin the Black Hand ever had. He is a veteran of the Baali wars and was considered in his times one of the most powerful members of the warrior caste.

        Just give him 40 dots more in disciplines.

        You could use Eshmunamash stats from Lair of the Hidden to have an idea on how powerful could be a 5th gen more than 3000 years old.
        In the end he should be much powerful than Tariq, Tegyrius, Dastur or Abdalkutba.
        The closest thing in terms of age you can find are Nergal, Japhet, Enkidu and Baba's sheets, just downgrade them.
        Last edited by Undead rabbit; 05-05-2019, 08:30 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
          Alexander was 1900 years old when he was diablerized.
          By the time Alexander was embraced, Izhim was already a Methuselah 4100 years old.

          Even more:Aajav hasn't the exlcusive on diablerie, we are talking of a 7000 years old ASSAMITE WARRIOR on the Path of Blood.


          Izhim stats should be shockingly high, besides, he is not just a scholar, but also the mightiest of the Shakari of the Black Hand, he is the top assassin the Black Hand ever had. He is a veteran of the Baali wars and was considered in his times one of the most powerful members of the warrior caste.

          Just give him 40 dots more in disciplines.

          You could use Eshmunamash stats from Lair of the Hidden to have an idea on how powerful could be a 5th gen more than 3000 years old.
          In the end he should be much powerful than Tariq, Tegyrius, Dastur or Abdalkutba.
          The closest thing in terms of age you can find are Nergal, Japhet, Enkidu and Baba's sheets, just downgrade them.

          You basically took the words out of my mouth! I was going to argue the same things you said, Izhim is also a diablerist and the mightiest of the Shakari of the Black Hand, not counting that he's also the first Seraph of the legendary Tal'Mahe'Ra AND follows the Path of Blood (probably some variant as he doesn't seem to consider Haqim sacred or anything, but in any case his Path rating is low...), so he most likely indulged in diablerie, possibly even more so than Jalan/Qarakh. I definitely think that buffing him would be the most sensible decision.

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          • #6
            He seems strong enough to me. His primary stats seem to be Mental, anyway.

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            • #7
              Use Children of the Night system of square root of the years he spend active. I believe it to be the best system for NPCs discipline stats.

              - Saga

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Saga View Post
                Use Children of the Night system of square root of the years he spend active. I believe it to be the best system for NPCs discipline stats.

                - Saga

                Yeah, I guess so. Strangely enough there are many cases in the very COTN where such rules seem to have been completely forgotten or ignored as in the afore mentioned case lol.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post


                  Yeah, I guess so. Strangely enough there are many cases in the very COTN where such rules seem to have been completely forgotten or ignored as in the afore mentioned case lol.
                  It is a possibility yes, but it might also be that the time certain cainites spend in torpor is not specified.

                  - Saga

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                  • #10
                    Yes, of course it's always something that one can come up with. In any case Izhim is a wonderful character and given his story I do think he shold be given more accurate stats.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
                      Yes, of course it's always something that one can come up with. In any case Izhim is a wonderful character and given his story I do think he shold be given more accurate stats.
                      Agree on that one, he served as caliph previously, and given his age and compared to revised's Caliph Thetmes, he is comparably understated.

                      - Saga

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post


                        You basically took the words out of my mouth! I was going to argue the same things you said, Izhim is also a diablerist and the mightiest of the Shakari of the Black Hand, not counting that he's also the first Seraph of the legendary Tal'Mahe'Ra AND follows the Path of Blood (probably some variant as he doesn't seem to consider Haqim sacred or anything, but in any case his Path rating is low...), so he most likely indulged in diablerie, possibly even more so than Jalan/Qarakh. I definitely think that buffing him would be the most sensible decision.
                        I agree with Saga, you can give him much more dots even compared to Thetmes.

                        This guy used to be discussed from time to time. His stats is very alien to his background, which is a rare thing especially in latter books and for Assamite NPCs(They are always badass). Okay overstatted guys aren't rare even in latter... but I think you should make your own choice.
                        Last edited by Rock113; 05-06-2019, 08:22 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rock113 View Post

                          I agree with Saga, you can give him much more dots even compared to Thetmes.

                          This guy used to be discussed from time to time. His stats is very alien to his background, which is a rare thing especially in latter books and for Assamite NPCs(They are always badass).
                          Actually, could we discuss this? Is it just me or do the Assamites have a far greater number of fleshed out and "statted" 4th and 5th Generation Methuselahs than other clans? Really, Tegyrius dwarfs all other justicars n age.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post

                            Actually, could we discuss this? Is it just me or do the Assamites have a far greater number of fleshed out and "statted" 4th and 5th Generation Methuselahs than other clans? Really, Tegyrius dwarfs all other justicars n age.
                            I can't recall clearly, "Badass" I say is of the same generation or age compared to other clans, in my memory there are many suitable statted Assamite NPCs. Children of the Night has two real top Badass at least, Al-Ashrad is the third or second most powerful statted vampire NPC, Ur-shulgi may be the first if his stats is completed(I think he is much more powerful than Shaitan).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post

                              Actually, could we discuss this? Is it just me or do the Assamites have a far greater number of fleshed out and "statted" 4th and 5th Generation Methuselahs than other clans? Really, Tegyrius dwarfs all other justicars n age.

                              I think it has something to do with the clan identity. Basically Assamites are "Badass" vampires that make you tremble in fear hahaha, but I don't agree with Rock113 about Al-Ashrad, although powerful he isn't even close to the third or much less second most powerful statted vampire NPC. I can think of a dozen more powerful examples.

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