Izhim-ur-Baal

[Tegyrius]

The most amazing thing with Al-Ashrad is that he has one arm and Archery 8.

Movement of the Mind ••••• compensates for a lot.

It's better being Porthos or Voormas than being Ur-Shulgi, in terms power; Archmages are weaker and stronger than methuselah at the same time; weaker because they do not have the same immediate raw power that can be used at any time, stronger because with time and preparation Archmages power come closer to that of the Antediluvians, and sometimes it goes even further)

I can't speak for subsequent expansion or retcon, but as intended when written for CotN, al-Ashrad was never an archmage. Do note that the character's background section is written very much in-character, and any use of "mage" in that context is by Children of Haqim who don't enjoy our multi-book perspective.

- C.

[Rock113]

Archmages are weaker and stronger than methuselah at the same time; weaker because they do not have the same immediate raw power that can be used at any time, stronger because with time and preparation Archmages power come closer to that of the Antediluvians, and sometimes it goes even further)

I forget it, These ten sons of Haqim also show how important the preparation is to Mages. A 'mere' mortal can kill 10 Meths(very likely) immediately without being hurt.

By the way: Mancheaka died at the time of the Second City, shortly after Ur-Shulgi came to existence.

He died in the second Baali War exactly.

Archmages powers never comes even close to Antediluvians stop fulling yourself. Ur-Shulgi would probably kill Porthos in less than a turn, meaning Porthos would not even have time to think...and he's just a methuselah...

It is up to how well Porthod prepares, and as I say, U-S is not a simple 9000-year-old Meths. so it is indefinite.

And to be honest it is difficult to compare their powers because of their different systems.

For instance, a Canon rote in VtM ST Handbook Re. allows a mage who "only" having Prime 6, Life 4, Matter 4 , Entropy 4 and Occlut 6 (But in most conditions you have Prime 6 then you have others, Archspehres need ultimate seeking.) to restore vampire to human. Of course it is very, very demanding and vulgar, but at least it is accessible. And someone had managed to do it(Talaq!)

But is there any Canon vampiric way to restore themselves? Golconda? Lv.10 "Holy" Discipline like Obeah 10? Lv.10 True Faith (I don't know if "Faith" in early VtM books is the same as latter "True Faith") ?

All sounds like fairy tales.

Who knows how many shocking things can other Archspehres do?

PS: Btw, in my memory. In Cairo by Night, a Malkavian who consumes the blood of dinnji has achieved Golconda, but that only allows him to learn Disciplines without limitation, a little boring.

And I remember Faith 10 in the Hunters Hunted allows you restore vampire who is no more than 100 years old, also very limited.

I can't speak for subsequent expansion or retcon, but as intended when written for CotN, al-Ashrad was never an archmage. Do note that the character's background section is written very much in-character, and any use of "mage" in that context is by Children of Haqim who don't enjoy our multi-book perspective.

- C.

...But in Assamite CB Re. he is a mage before...We refer to lattest.

[Baaldam]

He probably wasn't present when Mancheaka and his pals attacked Al- Ashrad. Also Al- Ashrad didn't destroy 10 of the most powerful Assamites. He destroyed Mancheaka and some of his friends (not sure what the exact number was). Ur- Shulgi is Haqim's second child but that doesnt necessarily mean he was weaker then Mancheaka. Nothing about Ur-Shulgi is normal. Who knows what happend to him when he was thrown in the sacrificial pit of the Baali. He is probably something more then a vampire.

And i seriously doubt Al-Ashrad is weaker now then he was back then. Al -Ashrad is probably the third most powerful Assamite awake right now (if not second).

Considering that Ur-Shulgi might have been made to serve as "substitute Baali overlord" and end up being so successful he lead the destruction of the Second City before Haqim would personally confront and bring him to heel...defnitely not weaker than Mancheaka.

[Incidentally, this apocryphal tale on Ur-Shulgi's origins would imply he is the Baal-the-Destroyer mentioned in the Baali section V20 and might kind of explain his apparent incapacity to undo the Baali curse on the Warrior caste in contrast to his undoing of that of the Tremere]