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Don't you guys think Thomas Gerhieren is too cute to be a Gangrel?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Possessed View Post
    Just want to chime in a bit here with some personal experience.

    So I love V20 and VtDA20 versions of the Gangrel weakness with features becoming long lasting/permanent on botches or with player input, I particularly like some of the bigger features given in CB and if a player wants one after a botch it suits me fine. I am not too fond of the permanent feature after each Frenzy since it can really screw up things fast.

    As an a personal example I had a self-control 4 Gangrel and during the first game session due to horrendous luck with the dice I frenzied a total of four times. In a single session I had accumulated 4 permanent animal features. This will quite quickly lead to a character that is hardly regognizable for the one I began with.

    Hence I am more in favour of the latest rules in V20 and VtDA20 as those rules will not screw one up due to bad luck. But naturally YMMV.
    Not to mention the need to figure out an ever-increasing set of animal features that don't look unintentionally ridiculous, especially in combination.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by JezMiller View Post

      Not to mention the need to figure out an ever-increasing set of animal features that don't look unintentionally ridiculous, especially in combination.

      You got some problem with chimeras?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


        As I said, I checked my rule book again, and the loss of social attributes is only a "good guideline" and the actual impact of the changes are up to the ST to decide. Rather than a hard coded system. If the Story Teller wants the changes to be purely narrative, they're allowed to deem it so.

        You can still play a socially focused Gangrel, who's accumulated permanent features. They might become alpha to a pack of ghouled animals, or perhaps ingratiate themselves into a cult of demented mortals, who mistake the vampire as some kind of pagan deity.

        Gangrel aren't the type of clan to parade themselves around a fancy court room, and I doubt anyone but the youngest of fledglings would even consider embracing somebody who contradicts that stereotype.
        First, the player and storyteller are the final arbiters of a character concept. If the player wants to run a Social-focused Gangrel, that's their prerogative. The character shouldn't be invalidated in an instant, because of some bad rolls.

        Second, Clan Gangrel, more than any other Clan, are prone to acquiring wildly varied members, by virtue of their primary Embrace tactic. They find someone in the wild, Embrace them, and leave them to survive on their own. If they can, then they're obviously fit to be Gangrel. If they can't, then their unfitness is a self-correcting problem. If a Gangrel fledgling manages to survive, but they are (and have every intention of continuing to be) a Social-focused character, not only would Clan Gangrel not do anything about it, they would consider it a waste of their time to try. So the neonate wants to stick around Elysium and party with the Toreador or network with the Ventrue. Who cares?

        Third, all other things being equal, I consider more story opportunities to be better than fewer. Edition rules that support this, therefore, have merit over more restrictive ones. Even if the Gangrel doesn't lose Social dots, they're still made less able to interact with a broader swath of characters in older, "animalistic-permanent" editions than they are in V20. That is the POINT of my post. Regardless of stats, the player is forced by random chance to treat their PC as basically another Nosferatu, in terms of having to avoid mortal contact or witnesses. Worse, actually, because the character was neither built for Nos style games, and doesn't natively possess Obfuscate to mitigate the problems. Unless they're a City Gangrel, which is not always what the player can or wants to do (or what a storyteller will allow).


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        • #34
          Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
          Third, all other things being equal, I consider more story opportunities to be better than fewer. Edition rules that support this, therefore, have merit over more restrictive ones. Even if the Gangrel doesn't lose Social dots, they're still made less able to interact with a broader swath of characters in older, "animalistic-permanent" editions than they are in V20. That is the POINT of my post. Regardless of stats, the player is forced by random chance to treat their PC as basically another Nosferatu, in terms of having to avoid mortal contact or witnesses. Worse, actually, because the character was neither built for Nos style games, and doesn't natively possess Obfuscate to mitigate the problems. Unless they're a City Gangrel, which is not always what the player can or wants to do (or what a storyteller will allow).
          I'm not saying that having the changes being temporary is a bad thing, especially not for the reasons you mentioned. I'm just saying that I personally like the idea of permanent changes being an option. Maybe not for the young ones, who are still reasonably connected with human society. But the older ones, who have been living in the wilds for centuries and become changed by their experience, that sounds like a cool concept to explore once in a while.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


            Nope. He was like that from the get-go - did you not notice he had a Herd made of teenage girlfriends?
            Please, do check the book, i'll wait...

            LOL! Yes I've checked it and it's hilarious to say the least.

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            • #36
              To be fair, Beckett has 2 permanent beast marks and let people think he was Malkavian for a long time.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by JezMiller View Post

                Not to mention the need to figure out an ever-increasing set of animal features that don't look unintentionally ridiculous, especially in combination.
                The trick, IMO, is to stick with a theme that fits the character, even planning for it at character creation. I once saw a Gangrel who started as a fairly ruthless skip tracer and bail bond efforcer before eventually turning into Killer Croc, becoming more ruthless and cold blooded, losing most of his hair, developing rough leathery skin, his teeth and eyes changing, and developing the habits of swallowing rocks, preference for drowning his prey, and sleeping in tubs of murky water with just his nose above the surface (not to breathe but to smell potential intruders). When the chronicle ended and the character retired, the player decided he'd eventually develop Huge Size and albinoism while dwelling in the sewer system as some sort of white devil crocodile god worshipped by a cult of homeless people and even a lot of the local Nosferatu being scared of him.


                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post


                  LOL! Yes I've checked it and it's hilarious to say the least.

                  Thomas has some bits that can throw quite the curveball into one's expectations of what he's supposed to be like from his role/archetype as the lieutenant and such and is far from the only one. Milwaukee while not as referenced as Chicago, has quite the peculiar ensemble - i even rambled a bit on its ups & downs a few years ago here and had a hell of a time with it back then.

                  PS: one thing that i always found a shame is that the book gives us no stats for Merrick's Gangrel wife, who if memory tricks me not, seemed to be socially oriented and a nurse before she met final death.
                  Last edited by Baaldam; 05-27-2019, 01:35 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

                    The trick, IMO, is to stick with a theme that fits the character, even planning for it at character creation. I once saw a Gangrel who started as a fairly ruthless skip tracer and bail bond efforcer before eventually turning into Killer Croc, becoming more ruthless and cold blooded, losing most of his hair, developing rough leathery skin, his teeth and eyes changing, and developing the habits of swallowing rocks, preference for drowning his prey, and sleeping in tubs of murky water with just his nose above the surface (not to breathe but to smell potential intruders). When the chronicle ended and the character retired, the player decided he'd eventually develop Huge Size and albinoism while dwelling in the sewer system as some sort of white devil crocodile god worshipped by a cult of homeless people and even a lot of the local Nosferatu being scared of him.

                    That sounds amazing!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post


                      Basically he is the typical Gangrel, although it's stated that he uses his appearence to get laid with different rich girls and use their houses as temporary haven. The guy is basically a Chuck Norris! He single-handled killed a werewolf and fought with others of the pack before getting help from an elder Gangrel and this in the night of his embrace! Now I'm reading that some years later he also maneged to destroy the anathema Angelo! So he's a great hunter and able combatant and a high school womanizer in his spare time. Now he's the scourge of Milwaukee! OMG all of this with less than 40 years as a cainite! For Caine's sake! I want to be that boy! ROFL!
                      Sounds like a rather slow to level PC, honestly. I'd expect a player to try and probably succeed at this after only a few years up and about, barring any age their backstory credits them with.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by PixelPuzzler View Post

                        Sounds like a rather slow to level PC, honestly. I'd expect a player to try and probably succeed at this after only a few years up and about, barring any age their backstory credits them with.

                        But in any case I think they are most likely not as "cute" as Thomas Gerhieren! LOL!

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