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Isn't Ironclad Command one of the most broken powers in Vampire history?

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  • Isn't Ironclad Command one of the most broken powers in Vampire history?

    I know it's a level 8 Presence power, but to not allow people to ever spend willpower to resist your Presence powers is perhaps the most broken power in Vampire. How are you supposed to deal with such a god? What are your thoughts on the matter?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
    I know it's a level 8 Presence power, but to not allow people to ever spend willpower to resist your Presence powers is perhaps the most broken power in Vampire. How are you supposed to deal with such a god? What are your thoughts on the matter?

    At the same level you can dominate someone from any place on the planet. Dementation allows you to deny one thing. anything and not be effected by it.. I Mean there's a reason 5e didn't incorporate elder powers..

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    • #3
      I'm also very much sceptical about the whole "SPend one willpower and effectively negate the entire discipline for a scene" (which is usually long enough for almost everything), so I don't mind that too much. ALso its an 8th level power so unless you constantly mess with 5th gen you never run into that shit anyway. And if you fuck with a 5th gen, then they have so many more ways to make your days miserable.

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      • #4



        Mean there's a reason 5e didn't incorporate elder powers..
        Well, they did it for simplification sake only (and let's remember 1st edition also begun on the same premisse...), as the new Fortitude power Skin of Marble is arguably better than any Advanced Fortitude, or soaking power for the matter, ever created.

        I agree that Dominate 8 is a good contender, but Ironclad Command is a passive power and that means a lot, when you take into consideration all Presence powers...


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        • #5
          Originally posted by Quatar View Post
          I'm also very much sceptical about the whole "SPend one willpower and effectively negate the entire discipline for a scene" (which is usually long enough for almost everything), so I don't mind that too much. ALso its an 8th level power so unless you constantly mess with 5th gen you never run into that shit anyway. And if you fuck with a 5th gen, then they have so many more ways to make your days miserable.

          I also find it very upsetting, but you have to make a willpower roll at difficulty 8 at the same time of spending a willpower point, so it's not so simple.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post




            Well, they did it for simplification sake only (and let's remember 1st edition also begun on the same premisse...), as the new Fortitude power Skin of Marble is arguably better than any Advanced Fortitude, or soaking power for the matter, ever created.

            I agree that Dominate 8 is a good contender, but Ironclad Command is a passive power and that means a lot, when you take into consideration all Presence powers...


            There are ALOT of broken Power in Vampire. The Elder powers are particularly problematic as they run the gammit of things that probably should be lower level options or combos and things that are fiat powers. Iron clad is a passive power that works with all other Presence powers.. off the top of my head Pavis.. still beats it. Meanwhile I could say dominate someone from space, or Declare any attack null and void. Rewind time a day with no consquences. Force someone into an instant Wasail.. etc Do 30 dice of agg damage to everyone who can hear you, transform into a living Tornado, instantly kill anyone by ripping out their heart, make someone unable to spend blood..at all...

            If I'm going to call out one power for most broken in Vampire.. it would be Reality from Chimestry. Where you can just declare something to happen and it does..

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lian View Post


              There are ALOT of broken Power in Vampire. The Elder powers are particularly problematic as they run the gammit of things that probably should be lower level options or combos and things that are fiat powers. Iron clad is a passive power that works with all other Presence powers.. off the top of my head Pavis.. still beats it. Meanwhile I could say dominate someone from space, or Declare any attack null and void. Rewind time a day with no consquences. Force someone into an instant Wasail.. etc Do 30 dice of agg damage to everyone who can hear you, transform into a living Tornado, instantly kill anyone by ripping out their heart, make someone unable to spend blood..at all...

              If I'm going to call out one power for most broken in Vampire.. it would be Reality from Chimestry. Where you can just declare something to happen and it does..

              Haha yeah there are a lot of broken elder powers, but also many nearly useless or simply too weak ones, but you made me curious with some of your examples. Which vampire power "declare any attack null and void" or does "30 dice of agg damage to everyone who can hear you"? These ones I can't recall Reality is also very broken. In my opinion the main problem with the so called Elder powers is that there is absolutely no balance between them and obtenebration and animalism are kings of useless flavour powers that could be much lower level powers for instance.

              Lastly I think Pavis of Foul Presence in its last version doesn't affect elder Presence.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post

                These ones I can't recall Reality is also very broken. In my opinion the main problem with the so called Elder powers is that there is absolutely no balance between them and obtenebration and animalism are kings of useless flavour powers
                Ahrimans demense and plague of beasts are op as hell

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LastCourier View Post

                  Ahrimans demense and plague of beasts are op as hell

                  I actually think Ahriman's Demense to be very weak. I mean three turns of concentration? Way too much in my opinion. Flavourwise I think it's great, but systematically isn't so good.

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