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Could you do this with Viccissitude?

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  • Cifer
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
    Whatever problems humans need technology to solve, the vampiric condition has an inherent ability to compensate for. It's nice to have access to the tools that human ingenuity can provide, but kindred don't need to rely on them. Humans, on the other hand, would be utterly powerless without such resources at their disposal.
    So, what is the vampiric ability to have most of humanity's knowledge at your fingertips? How do you bodily cross oceans within hours? How do you conduct a real-time conversation with five other people whom you've never met, some human, some kindred, all strewn across the planet?

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  • Illithid
    replied
    Realistically, the sunlight thing also decreases your time to act in a day, Humans on average need 8 hrs rest, but to keep out of sunlight a Vampire needs around 10-14 depending on time of the year.
    "Farming" a regular food supply is more difficult for a vampire in the "Wild"
    Long term food storage is more feasible for Humans, although a Vampire could go a longer time without "eating" Humans can store dead food for months and dead food is useless for most vampires, certainly those with a tendency for Protean.
    Cooperation and close living is a lot easier for humans as well.

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  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    Humans can create tools out of nature; I actually love watching Primative Technology where there only advanced technology is the camera recording his exploits.

    But Most Vampires can't rely on specific Disciplines, the Gangrel are well suited due to Protean, but that's still a very pointy build to get Protean 4 at character creation to allow you to "transform into a wild predator"
    Really; Disciplines are just tools that the Vampires have developed that are internal. Without them Vampires are even more lost than humans because of their weaknesses. Humans can gift their tools to others in ways that Vampires can't, can teach others to make them more easily than a Vampire can teach a Discipline.

    Really, you're looking from the perspective of Elder and Clan based Privilege :P

    True, reaching level 4 Protean may be a bit of a chore. But the Gangrel has Animalism to compensate for that. If you can't chase the animals down, you make the animals come to you. Or, better yet, command one of the surrounding predators to subdue the prey for you, while you tag along to finish it off.

    As for weaknesses, the only major ones that stand out are sunlight, and an increased lack of impulse control. Biologically speaking, they're far superior to mortals in every sense of the word. Which is kind of odd, for a being who is clinically dead.

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  • Illithid
    replied
    Humans can create tools out of nature; I actually love watching Primative Technology where there only advanced technology is the camera recording his exploits.

    But Most Vampires can't rely on specific Disciplines, the Gangrel are well suited due to Protean, but that's still a very pointy build to get Protean 4 at character creation to allow you to "transform into a wild predator"
    Really; Disciplines are just tools that the Vampires have developed that are internal. Without them Vampires are even more lost than humans because of their weaknesses. Humans can gift their tools to others in ways that Vampires can't, can teach others to make them more easily than a Vampire can teach a Discipline.

    Really, you're looking from the perspective of Elder and Clan based Privilege :P

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  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    I agree that technology has forced the world in to compliance, because tools have made us the STRONGEST Primate because of our adaptability, Earth melding is great until there's only stone around, knowing how to make a sunproof shelter is better. Claws are awesome, but tools for range and pits to trap dangerous prey help even more.

    Vicissitude can help you perform some tasks better, but usually by making more tasks harder or some tasks impossible (For Significant Changes; not that character sheets technically show that, so I suppose it's not a RAW interpretation)

    Mmm, the only places I can think of where stone would form the majority of the landscape would be the concrete cities (and even then, I'm sure there's a park somewhere), or some kind of mountain range. And the reason why we created tools, pits and traps, is because humans are too slow and clumsy to chase prey down on foot. That becomes significantly less of a problem, when you can transform into a wild predator, or travel 50 meters (164 feet) as a free action.

    Whatever problems humans need technology to solve, the vampiric condition has an inherent ability to compensate for. It's nice to have access to the tools that human ingenuity can provide, but kindred don't need to rely on them. Humans, on the other hand, would be utterly powerless without such resources at their disposal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
    Only because we've used our technology and medical research to artificially force the world into compliance. You send a human out into the natural wilderness with no tools, weapons or resources of any kind, and chances are they aren't going to survive for very long on their own.
    In fact, I'd even say that such tools have crippled us as a species. If we're the latest stage in our evolutionary line, then why are humans the weakest species of ape?
    Vampires, and indeed most other life forms who haven't been domesticated by human interference, don't have such frailties. Their inherent abilities give them all they need to thrive in their ecosystem.
    (Path of the Feral Heart enthusiast)
    I agree that technology has forced the world in to compliance, because tools have made us the STRONGEST Primate because of our adaptability, Earth melding is great until there's only stone around, knowing how to make a sunproof shelter is better. Claws are awesome, but tools for range and pits to trap dangerous prey help even more.

    Vicissitude can help you perform some tasks better, but usually by making more tasks harder or some tasks impossible (For Significant Changes; not that character sheets technically show that, so I suppose it's not a RAW interpretation)

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Theodrim View Post

    Lost count of how many times I've seen that movie, and I'm ashamed I only just realized the reference.

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  • Theodrim
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    Do you mean Kiasd?
    No...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2246g7AzbMc

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  • Draconis
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
    Looking at my V20 book, and I'm pretty sure the Tzimisce in that picture has a Size 5 waist line. What the fuck did she do with her organs?
    The first step on the Path of Metamorphosis is realizing that you don't really need internal organs—not when the alternative is being able to fit into size zero pants.

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  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Kael03 View Post

    Many of the elder and methuselah aged Tzimisce do exactly this. Triglav literally had 3 heads. Yorak would change form on a whim to be anything from a fly to some monstrosity one can only have nightmares from. Sascha Vykos barely looks human now.

    Generally, if they aren't Old Clan, the tzimisce have reshaped themselves into something not completely human in order to transcend the physical vampire form.

    Looking at my V20 book, and I'm pretty sure the Tzimisce in that picture has a Size 5 waist line. What the fuck did she do with her organs?

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  • Kael03
    replied
    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post


    The first reason I can think of for not doing it, it's because it's rather vulgar and bland... it sounds more like something a teenager "metalhead" would want to do than what an elder would lol...
    Many of the elder and methuselah aged Tzimisce do exactly this. Triglav literally had 3 heads. Yorak would change form on a whim to be anything from a fly to some monstrosity one can only have nightmares from. Sascha Vykos barely looks human now.

    Generally, if they aren't Old Clan, the tzimisce have reshaped themselves into something not completely human in order to transcend the physical vampire form.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post

    I personally believe that the human form is pretty well optimized for the world we live in (Or more specifically, the world is optimized for our form) so changes from the standard humanoid is generally disadvantageous for the versatility of night to night life.

    Only because we've used our technology and medical research to artificially force the world into compliance. You send a human out into the natural wilderness with no tools, weapons or resources of any kind, and chances are they aren't going to survive for very long on their own.

    In fact, I'd even say that such tools have crippled us as a species. If we're the latest stage in our evolutionary line, then why are humans the weakest species of ape?

    Vampires, and indeed most other life forms who haven't been domesticated by human interference, don't have such frailties. Their inherent abilities give them all they need to thrive in their ecosystem.

    (Path of the Feral Heart enthusiast)
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 05-17-2019, 08:40 AM.

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  • Herr Meister
    replied
    I personally believe that the human form is pretty well optimized for the world we live in (Or more specifically, the world is optimized for our form) so changes from the standard humanoid is generally disadvantageous for the versatility of night to night life.
    Yes, I agree with it as well. I never liked much the "fetish" some Tzimisce have about looking monstrous and bizarre, but at the same time I can understand that it fits very well with the ideas of the Path of Metamorphosis and end up looking like a kind of "mental illness" they have, specially in the eyes of other cainites that do not adhere to their weltanschauung, so to speak.
    It could be and indeed perhaps it is a kind of mental compulsion caused by the power of Viccissitude, like a sort of side-effect of being able to completelly control their physical form, what in turn leads us to the Tal'Mahe'Ra conspiracy theory that Vicissitude is in fact a disease of the soul.

    In any case, I would most surely prefer to just look like a gorgeous humanoid being as it makes non-life (and I'd say life as well lol) much easier and simple for so many reasons. But then again I don't parcitularly share their weltanschauung.

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  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
    Hahaha...I have to agree with you on this one! Good point.
    Double points for being Vulgar too!

    It does emphasize the Sabbat's Trans-humanism or Trans-Vampirism core belief; if you're wanting to prove you're better than human, you probably want to look (not-human) as you're preaching that.
    I personally believe that the human form is pretty well optimized for the world we live in (Or more specifically, the world is optimized for our form) so changes from the standard humanoid is generally disadvantageous for the versatility of night to night life.

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  • Herr Meister
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    Much of the Sabbat seems to have the mentality of "teenager metalhead" so that's really a point in it's favour :P

    Hahaha...I have to agree with you on this one! Good point.

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