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Potence, Celerity and Fortitude Powers?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by elmerg View Post


    Just because they build science into it doesn't make it any less 'blood doing magic stuff' than any other Discipline. Their progenitor seems to have gotten blowed up, and therefor their blood changed, and it seems some of their magic stopped working because of that.

    Well, crap... there goes my motivation to play a V5 Tremere, now.

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    • #17
      It's not clear why everything changed, but it seems to have something to do with Vienna, yeah. That's the moment when every blood-bond in the Pyramid shattered instantly. Some people blame Carna, some people blame Saulot, some people blame the Seven (who else?), some people blame the Banu Haqim…

      But basically, a lot of the Tremere's magic relied on special properties of their blood—that's why the Tremere could learn Movement of the Mind at in-clan costs while everyone else had to pay extra xp. One theory was that the direct blood links to the rest of the Pyramid (and to the Seven) channelled the whole clan's power into each bit of magic, which justified the Pyramid structure. But now those links are gone for good. They've been rebuilding since then, trying to come up with new ways to get the same effects (such as Essence of Air, a ritual that lets you fly using totally different methods from Movement of the Mind), but they're basically starting from scratch, just like they had to after their pseudo-Embrace destroyed their Avatars.

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      • #18
        Blood Sorcery is now like other Disciplines in that you have different powers to choose at different levels but they basically combined Blood Path with Quietus (the silence power was moved to Obfuscate). The real power of Blood Sorcery, and has always been imho, is in the rituals. Most paths that people miss can easily be reintroduced as a ritual now so I don't personally see it as a real loss.


        "The only consistent wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" ~ Socrates

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Imthestein View Post
          Blood Sorcery is now like other Disciplines in that you have different powers to choose at different levels but they basically combined Blood Path with Quietus (the silence power was moved to Obfuscate). The real power of Blood Sorcery, and has always been imho, is in the rituals. Most paths that people miss can easily be reintroduced as a ritual now so I don't personally see it as a real loss.

          I'm not too familiar about the difference between spells and rituals, anyways. Will need to read my book again, or look for some information online.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Draconis View Post
            Celerity:
            1. Auto-succeed all balance checks; or, take a minor action every round without penalty, and have defense against firearms
            2. Burn blood to add your Celerity to your Dex temporarily
            3. Move 50 meters as a free action; or, run on any surface (ice, walls, water…) for a single turn
            4. Give two dots of temporary Celerity to anyone who drinks your blood; or, completely negate defense and dodging for a single ranged attack (+Auspex)
            5. Completely negate defense and dodging for a single melee attack; or, retcon the Storyteller's narration of a single turn ("no, actually, I moved out of the way before the bomb went off")
            Fortitude:
            1. Add your Fortitude dots to your health track; or, add your Fortitude to all mental and social resistance rolls
            2. If an attack does superficial (non-agg) damage, subtract your Fortitude before applying it; or, apply Fortitude to animals (+Animalism)
            3. Convert agg equal to your Fortitude into superficial per scene; or, shield your mind so all Auspex use will return "no data"
            4. Give two dots of temporary Fortitude to anyone who drinks your blood
            5. For one scene, outright ignore the first source of damage each turn; or, remove all wound penalties and instead turn wounds into Physical bonuses
            Potence:
            1. Unarmed attacks do agg to humans, and ignore armor equal to your Potence dots; or, jump really high and really far with no roll
            2. Add your Potence to your unarmed damage modifier
            3. Drain a human in a single turn (so Bloodlines-style feeding in combat); or, auto-succeed all climbing checks; or, incite humans or vampires to violence (+Presence)
            4. Give two dots of temporary Potence to anyone who drinks your blood
            5. Punch the ground to cause a shockwave; or, your attacks always do agg damage no matter what (you can rip people apart with your bare hands)

            Oh, in addition to individual powers, do they still passively increase your attributes in any way, or has that been retconned, now?

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            • #21
              Now you have to buy passive increases as powers. For example, with Fort 1 you can get "add your Fortitude dots to your Health"; it's not a thing you activate, you just buy it and it's always-on.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


                Oh, in addition to individual powers, do they still passively increase your attributes in any way, or has that been retconned, now?
                Nothing so explicit as that but they do have powers that benefit their respective Attributes in some manner. Celerity has a power for keeping balance and auto-succeeding on Dexterity based rolls not used for combat, Potence has the ability to improve your rolls for Feats of Strength, and Fortitude has The soak and extra health stuff (especially given your health is now determined by Stamina).


                "The only consistent wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" ~ Socrates

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                • #23
                  Thanks for the info, guys.

                  Although, with all these details, I find myself questioning what the point of Generations is, anymore. If all attributes, skills and disciplines cap out at 5, it seems like any generation lower than 13 is a superficial difference, at best.

                  I mean, if you cranked your discipline up to level 4 or 5 as fast as possible, then a 12th generation neonate would now be just as powerful with its use as a 1,000 year old ancient who's 6 generations lower than them!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                    Thanks for the info, guys.

                    Although, with all these details, I find myself questioning what the point of Generations is, anymore. If all attributes, skills and disciplines cap out at 5, it seems like any generation lower than 13 is a superficial difference, at best.

                    I mean, if you cranked your discipline up to level 4 or 5 as fast as possible, then a 12th generation neonate would now be just as powerful with its use as a 1,000 year old ancient who's 6 generations lower than them!
                    Generation defines the range of BP you have, both your minimum and maximum BP. So think of Generation almost like your anchor for defining your power base. Someone embraced as 8th Gen is still likely to start out stronger than someone who is embraced as 13th Gen. In this case an 8th Gen Vampire has a minimum BP of 2 with a max of 6, while the 13th Gen has a minimum BP of 1 and a maximum of 3


                    "The only consistent wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" ~ Socrates

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                    • #25
                      Yeah, Blood Potency is now what makes the most difference. An Elder with BP5 can reroll most of their rouse checks for disciplines, add +3 to all Attributes when they bloodbuff, add +3 to all Disciplines just by virtue of having strong blood…

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                        Thanks for the info, guys.

                        Although, with all these details, I find myself questioning what the point of Generations is, anymore. If all attributes, skills and disciplines cap out at 5, it seems like any generation lower than 13 is a superficial difference, at best.

                        I mean, if you cranked your discipline up to level 4 or 5 as fast as possible, then a 12th generation neonate would now be just as powerful with its use as a 1,000 year old ancient who's 6 generations lower than them!

                        As noted above, Gen determines minimum/starting and maximum Blood Potency, which represents the actual 'strength' of the blood, which goes up by age and XP. So Generation is still important, but it's no longer a purchasable trait (it's a group decision for the game state of the characters). Blood Potency governs the following:
                        * How much you heal with each Rouse Check (higher BPs heal more with a single Rouse)
                        * How much you add to an attribute on a roll when you Blood Surge (higher BPs add more dice)
                        * Passive extra dice to Discipline activation and resistance rolls (the constant +3 from the example above)
                        * Extra Rouse Checks for actiivations of Disciplines (so less likely to gain Hunger)
                        * Feeding Restrictions
                        * Bane Severity penalty

                        So Gen is important in that it defines these things and is the general power limiter (as in the above example, an 8th Gen is double the starting power and maximum Potency of a 13th Gen), but BP does the heavy lifting. Generation also allows those of lower Gen to spend a point of WP to ignore a Dominate command. As far as Elders and Traits... well, an Elder using Dominate at BP6 is adding +3 dice to all their Dominate commands, that's pretty hefty. And almost all the Level 5 Disciplines in V5 were Elder Powers in prior editions; people just ignore that V5's scale is different, and so there shouldn't be an expectation of 'lots and lots of 5s' as a common occurrence.
                        Last edited by elmerg; 05-28-2019, 10:18 PM.

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                        • #27
                          I'm now wondering if somebody could homebrew a version of Earthshock that involves punching your target, instead of the ground. Creating a super hero inspired explosion on impact.

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                          • #28
                            There's also the fact that we don't know if there are more rules for actual Elders. A few people working on the 5th Ed have stated they often allow the Elders to have multiple level 5 powers.

                            Just imagine. Mass Dominate and Terminal Decree.


                            __________________________________________________
                            Preaching the enlightened gospels of Gaming Anarchy

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Growls View Post
                              There's also the fact that we don't know if there are more rules for actual Elders. A few people working on the 5th Ed have stated they often allow the Elders to have multiple level 5 powers.

                              Just imagine. Mass Dominate and Terminal Decree.

                              Dawkins and other devs have at least stated that there won't be special rules for traits above 6, as that throws the dice math off once you start getting above 12 or so dice, due to how crits factor in. We will see if we get any special elder rules, but even the couple example Methuselah in Chicago by Night are limited to the standard 5 powers/5 attributes. A lot of people continue to ignore that the scale of V5 is different, and the old 'scads of 5s in tons of things' is not a design coal for V5.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by elmerg View Post
                                Dawkins and other devs have at least stated that there won't be special rules for traits above 6, as that throws the dice math off once you start getting above 12 or so dice, due to how crits factor in. We will see if we get any special elder rules, but even the couple example Methuselah in Chicago by Night are limited to the standard 5 powers/5 attributes.
                                While that is true, the methusaleh in Chicago is explicitly severely weakened. This mostly refers to her Blood Potency, but might easily be taken to mean "she doesn't have the special methusaleh powers that we might hand out for other methusalehs in the future (if we decide that other methusalehs will have special methusaleh powers)".
                                That said, even in The Sacrifice, the example story from Chicago by Night, said methusaleh uses some power outside of the rules:
                                When the entry of Clan Lasombra into the Camarilla is decided, she influences all present Toreador to vote yes, which could possibly be considered an application of Mesmerize/Rationalize/Mass Manipulation, but feels lmore like very high level Presence.
                                (Why doesn't this forum have proper spoiler tags?)
                                Last edited by Cifer; 06-08-2019, 12:54 PM.

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