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  • #61
    Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
    Upsides:

    No more aging. I'm inclined to say to anyone under 45, they need to pause and ask if they really know what aging entails. It's painful, degrading, and frightening. Your own body is rebelling against you in a straight-up body horror sort of way. If it happened faster, and not to everyone, we would label it a disease right up there with cancer and Ebola.

    Gross Body Stuff Connected with aging, but somewhat not. No more stomach bugs which leave me on the bathroom floor covered in vomit. No more allergy attacks every time I try to take a walk in the woods. No more fear of "is that just a pimple or will I need chemo"? No more toothaches, ingrown toe nails, or tennis elbow.

    A Good Death Again, connected to the above, but deserves its own shout-out. A quick death is far from universal among vampires, as some meet grisly ends, like as a Tzimisce test subject. On average, though, when vampires die it's a matter of critical existence failure, not wasting away in a pool of your own shit while gasping for breath in severe pain as the nurse ignores you.

    Easier maintenance Yes, it takes time every night to hunt. If the rules are to believed an hour or so. How much time do I spend every single day drinking food and eating water, just to poop it and pee it back out again 8-12 hours later? How long working to earn the money for that food? How long going to the store to buy that food? How much time exercising so I can stay healthy? I sweat, and shed skin cells, so laundry is a daily chore, as are washing the dishes, cleaning the kitchen, and scrubbing the bathroom. It's a full-time job.

    Kewl Powerz Depending on your taste and clan aptitudes, there's something for everyone here. Physical and social buffs. Super-senses. Being really good at hiding when the doorbell rings and you'd rather not chat with the neighbors. Automatically good at canoodling because of the kiss. Then there's the more exotic stuff, like shape-shifting and straight-up magic.

    Fear I went for a walk last night to run an errand. The route took me through a rough part of town. I wasn't terrified, but I was cautious. I had the low-grade paranoia that lives the chest of every urban dweller. For a vampire, getting mugged is kind of awesome. It's like if pizza places just sent you a random delivery for free because you're a nice guy.

    Sense of Belonging This is a not often discussed part of VtM. The clan system certainly creates lots of "I hate you, vampire dad!" moments. It also means you kind of know who you are, what your role in society is, and what is expected of you. Even if you never did anything creative, if you are embraced Toreador spend a decade studying art history and etiquette. You'll get by, if not prosper. If you're Ventrue, just follow the rules and do your job... which they conveniently help you choose. Humans spend an enormous of their time pondering what their calling is. Whole religions are built around dharma or heavenly father's plan. As a vampire in a clan, you have a clear mission statement. Do that, then do what you want as an extracurricular.

    More Time Most vampires don't make it a thousand years, but most (who survive the embrace and aren't shovelheads) seem to live at least as long as they would have as a human. This means more time to do the stuff you want to do. Like reading? Lock yourself up in a library, emerging only to feed. Like going to clubs and getting laid? It's sort of your job now. Like binge watching Gilmore Girls? Memorize every cutesy bit of repartee. Have you ever vaguely thought it would be nice to learn French? Apprendre le Francais! Yes, you'll grow bored with each goal over time, then find new hobbies. That happens to humans, too, but now it doesn't matter you wasted a year of your life playing D&D3.5. One year is cheap when your life expectancy is over a century.


    Downsides:

    No more aging. Being a little more than half-way through this life, I can tell you different ages are different lives. When I was 10 I could get away with anything. At 20, I could get laid on a whim. At 30, people gave me chances because I was young, but respected that I had experience. At 40, I could get away with stuff again because of "a mid-life crisis". At 50, random people in stores would ask me about lawn mowers and car insurance. I'm expecting at 60, to not give a damn about sucking in my belly on the beach. Each age gave different experiences and different lessons. Being stuck in one forever would get old.

    Gross Body Stuff Blood is really, really hard to get out of fabric. And furniture, and woodwork, and rugs, and... Let's assume one feeding frenzy a year. That means once a year you have to deal with a clean-up of gory, serial killer levels. Dismembering bodies is not fun, and dissolving them in acid smells... no words for it.

    A Good Death Being trapped somewhere like a tunnel cave-in or Tzimisce lab could leave you in pain for centuries.

    Easier maintenance Just easier as a vampire, unless you count maintaining a haven, domain, and staff of ghouls to keep you safe. Then there's the time and energy in keeping the big secret. Also, if I fail at a home repair project, I can call a . If a vampire fails in light-proofing, they die.

    Kewl Powerz The very fact that these exist mean you are subject to them. example: What's your name? Are you sure, or have you been Dominated into remembering that's your name? The technocracy is right, an unpredictable world, where there are no rules and everyone can just make up reality as they go along isn't heaven. It's hell. Or, at least, insanity.

    Fear Antedeluvians. Hunters. Foreign sect foes. Rivals within the sect and clan. Your own sire getting hungry. Rampaging lupines who might be running toward you right now. As a human, I might be afraid of muggers, but there aren't a dozen major organizations in the world who actively want me gone. Vampires aren't paranoid, they're right.

    Sense of Belonging You are no longer part of a society. Period. You cannot, cannot, cannot ever open up to another person entirely, whether they are vampire or human. Lots of people think of themselves as rugged individualists who have removed themselves from society, but when you break your ankle the hospital is there waiting to treat you. When a human is the victim of a crime, they can call the cops. Ever read the Stand by Stephen King? It's about the survivors of a 99.4% wipe-out epidemic. It takes a few weeks, but the survivors realize they have no back-up at all. If one house catches fire in the city, no one will stop it until the whole city burns. If they step on a nail and get an infection, they will die. If they get trapped in a walk-in freezer, they will die. This is the nightly reality for vampires.

    More Time You likely live longer, yes. You no longer have 24 hours in a day, however. You have twelve-ish. How ever much you think you've extended your life cut it in half. Also, some activities are nearly impossible to pursue without daylight.

    So, Would I?

    Well, based just on the nature of vampirism, probably, yes. Not a slam dunk, but yeah.

    The devil, as always, is in the details. VtM has never cared about game balance, since the WoD is not a fair place, so clan and sect matter. Here, I handicap the various options.

    Hell, Yes! Toreador, Ventrue, Brujah, Old Clan Tzimisce, Tremere, and most of the other vanilla (or vanilla-ish) vampires either have minor flaws or their fledglings have disciplines to overcome them.

    The Maybes Everyone else has one issue or another that makes un-life less attractive. In the case of Nosferatu and Samedi, this is literal. In the case of Assamites, Ravnos, and Tzimisce, the meta-plot could be bad. Some have flaws which vary from edition to edition, like Gangrel.

    Hard No Some lines are so cursed, it tips the balance to a definite no. The Malkavians play Russian roulette at the embrace, maybe quirky, maybe a shredder. Nagaraja is way worse than just getting old and dying. Blood Brothers are worse than a cult.
    A very good assesment of the thoguths I'm largely holding too.

    One thing I want to add to the time restraint thing: Over here, nightime, when there's really no sun, lasts only 6-ish hours during summer months. That would be a real bummer, being only active for 6 hours a day, with some of that must be spent on hunting and traveling. Double sucks that hunting would be the easiest during those months and the nightlife the most abundant, so even if I'd be able to travel to another location, I'd miss out on the best part.

    Of course, it depends on how harsh the being up during the day rules and being damaged by sunlight stuff are? In VtM, both are pretty harsh, I'd say even excessively so. If I'd writing a game, I would make it a tad more forgiving, if not for other reason, then for the very thing above and for crossover reasons.


    If nothing worked, then let's think!

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

      Downsides:

      No more aging. Being a little more than half-way through this life, I can tell you different ages are different lives. When I was 10 I could get away with anything. At 20, I could get laid on a whim. At 30, people gave me chances because I was young, but respected that I had experience. At 40, I could get away with stuff again because of "a mid-life crisis". At 50, random people in stores would ask me about lawn mowers and car insurance. I'm expecting at 60, to not give a damn about sucking in my belly on the beach. Each age gave different experiences and different lessons. Being stuck in one forever would get old.

      Gross Body Stuff Blood is really, really hard to get out of fabric. And furniture, and woodwork, and rugs, and... Let's assume one feeding frenzy a year. That means once a year you have to deal with a clean-up of gory, serial killer levels. Dismembering bodies is not fun, and dissolving them in acid smells... no words for it.

      A Good Death Being trapped somewhere like a tunnel cave-in or Tzimisce lab could leave you in pain for centuries.
      No More Aging Cut to about 8:34 in this video. It goes into a compelling philosophy about how terrible an endless life span would actually be.

      Gross Body Stuff Billy Mays here, with the new Oxiclean!

      A Good Death I would imagine that disciplines would make escaping from a trap significantly easier than it would be for a mortal. Celerity and / or Potence would allow you to put in the work load of several humans, thus expediting the process. You might also call in the assistance of certain animals to help free yourself. Either burrowing you a new way out, chewing through electrical systems, or whatever else. Auspex could be used to help navigate your surroundings, and if you're skilled enough with Protean, you only need a sliver of open space to slip through to safety.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

        No More Aging Cut to about 8:34 in this video. It goes into a compelling philosophy about how terrible an endless life span would actually be.
        I prefer Hob Gadling's approach to the matter of immortality.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          Eh, it depends.

          The Sabbat might not do very well in fighting the Antes but they have destroyed many powerful Methuselahs.

          I mean, it backfires since Monty Coven ironically may be the Sabbat's biggest "success" and we saw how that turned out.

          But they at least took a few shots at the Devil.

          They also hunt demons.
          They hunt demons when not selling out to demons and ignoring it due to politics.


          It is a time for great deeds!

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
            More Time You likely live longer, yes. You no longer have 24 hours in a day, however. You have twelve-ish. How ever much you think you've extended your life cut it in half. Also, some activities are nearly impossible to pursue without daylight.
            There's one other downside there, other vampires. It's maybe not one of the main themes of the game, but every so often the books or characters mention that vampire society itself tends to push vampires into wasting their time fighting each other. Being allowed to do what you want is the result of being powerful, but being powerful generally means spending all your time obsessing about power.

            That said, how different that is from normal human existence is an open question.


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            • #66
              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
              They hunt demons when not selling out to demons and ignoring it due to politics.
              AKA the same as Werewolves.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                They hunt demons when not selling out to demons and ignoring it due to politics.

                Sabbat forbids bargaining with demons...

                "So what about Vicissitude, then?"

                "That's not confirmed one way or the other, shut up!"

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                  Sabbat forbids bargaining with demons...

                  "So what about Vicissitude, then?"

                  "That's not confirmed one way or the other, shut up!"
                  Vicissitude isn't the issue -
                  Koldun deal with the demons of the land. Different to Fallen Angel-Demons. But they also bargain power out of them...
                  Abyss Mysticism - Even the rest of the Lasombra don't trust what they're communing with, they just keep them on side because it's an asset better in the clan's power than against it.
                  *And the Lasombra tend to treat any decision as the right decision until it backfires. Then it was always the wrong decision.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by PMárk View Post

                    A very good assesment of the thoguths I'm largely holding too.

                    One thing I want to add to the time restraint thing: Over here, nightime, when there's really no sun, lasts only 6-ish hours during summer months. That would be a real bummer, being only active for 6 hours a day, with some of that must be spent on hunting and traveling. Double sucks that hunting would be the easiest during those months and the nightlife the most abundant, so even if I'd be able to travel to another location, I'd miss out on the best part.

                    Of course, it depends on how harsh the being up during the day rules and being damaged by sunlight stuff are? In VtM, both are pretty harsh, I'd say even excessively so. If I'd writing a game, I would make it a tad more forgiving, if not for other reason, then for the very thing above and for crossover reasons.
                    They are insanely harsh, especially when you consider that there is grey like in the sky an hour before sunrise and an hour after sunset. So that six hours? You've actually got four, that's if you are willing to cut it insanely close night after night. I just run it the way most vampire movies run it: only direct sunlight burns. The standard rules where even indirect sunlight burns is just insane. It's simply not viable.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                      They hunt demons when not selling out to demons and ignoring it due to politics.
                      they don't hunt demons, they hunt infernalists (big difference)
                      going after the demon is a last resort scenario
                      and, ironically, the Inquisition has made the Sabbat pretty bad and going against demons, until after the Tremere antis got nuked

                      Originally posted by Illithid View Post

                      Vicissitude isn't the issue -
                      Koldun deal with the demons of the land. Different to Fallen Angel-Demons. But they also bargain power out of them...
                      Abyss Mysticism - Even the rest of the Lasombra don't trust what they're communing with, they just keep them on side because it's an asset better in the clan's power than against it.
                      *And the Lasombra tend to treat any decision as the right decision until it backfires. Then it was always the wrong decision.
                      demons by Inquisition (and my most vampire) standards, are anything from fallen, spirits, shades etc

                      it's how you deal with them that makes you an infernalist or not, but even the Inquisition doesn't go very deep into the thing alot of the time,
                      so you might get accused of infernalism for just talking to a demon,
                      or for just practicing blood magic
                      unless you have nice back-up


                      -

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Illithid View Post

                        Vicissitude isn't the issue -
                        Koldun deal with the demons of the land. Different to Fallen Angel-Demons. But they also bargain power out of them...
                        Abyss Mysticism - Even the rest of the Lasombra don't trust what they're communing with, they just keep them on side because it's an asset better in the clan's power than against it.
                        *And the Lasombra tend to treat any decision as the right decision until it backfires. Then it was always the wrong decision.

                        So their stance is "don't traffic with demons... unless it's convenient to do so... then the entire clan is expected to follow suit!"

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post

                          They are insanely harsh, especially when you consider that there is grey like in the sky an hour before sunrise and an hour after sunset. So that six hours? You've actually got four, that's if you are willing to cut it insanely close night after night. I just run it the way most vampire movies run it: only direct sunlight burns. The standard rules where even indirect sunlight burns is just insane. It's simply not viable.
                          No, six hours is the dark period, plus the twilight and dusk periods.

                          Otherwise, I agree and I've done it the same way as you. That even indirect sunlight burns always sounded like bs to me. Again, I'd even make it easier to stay up and act during the day, to give a little more room for crossover troupes and to make the existence of vampries without ghouls believable.


                          If nothing worked, then let's think!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by PMárk View Post

                            Otherwise, I agree and I've done it the same way as you. That even indirect sunlight burns always sounded like bs to me.
                            The way I would explain that is that even if you're in the shadows, simply looking at a sunbeam would require the sunlight to be absorbed through your eyes in order for you to even perceive it's existence. So you're still technically being hit with sunlight, just a very diminished amount of it.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by PMárk View Post

                              No, six hours is the dark period, plus the twilight and dusk periods.

                              Otherwise, I agree and I've done it the same way as you. That even indirect sunlight burns always sounded like bs to me. Again, I'd even make it easier to stay up and act during the day, to give a little more room for crossover troupes and to make the existence of vampries without ghouls believable.
                              Personally, I just like the idea of the PCs being caught out at sunrise, and having to physically outrun the sun to get to safety, the line of daylight creeping across the ground as a moving field of death. Can't really do that, if your vampires were burning even with the pre-dawn light.


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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                                they don't hunt demons, they hunt infernalists (big difference)
                                going after the demon is a last resort scenario
                                and, ironically, the Inquisition has made the Sabbat pretty bad and going against demons, until after the Tremere antis got nuked



                                demons by Inquisition (and my most vampire) standards, are anything from fallen, spirits, shades etc

                                it's how you deal with them that makes you an infernalist or not, but even the Inquisition doesn't go very deep into the thing alot of the time,
                                so you might get accused of infernalism for just talking to a demon,
                                or for just practicing blood magic
                                unless you have nice back-up
                                This was in response to CTPhilips saying they hunt demons. And to be fair sometimes they do hunt demons, the conquest of Mexico centuries ago involved hunting some demons. But I know what you mean.


                                It is a time for great deeds!

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