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What actually are the Yama Kings of kindred of the east

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  • What actually are the Yama Kings of kindred of the east

    I know they rule parts of the 1000 Hells. But how did they get there?


    My characters:
    Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
    Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
    Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

  • #2
    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
    I know they rule parts of the 1000 Hells. But how did they get there?
    Initially, appointed by the August Personage of Jade or created by the Scarlet Queen and Ebon Dragon (in WOD cosmology, the embodiments of Yang and Yin), but over the ages entities from a variety of origins have claimed rulership of at least one of the Hells and joined their ranks - Malfeans from Wraith, former humans, and at least one (Ravana) strongly implied to have been a powerful Ravnos of early generation.

    These days Yama King is more a title than a distinct type of entity.
    Last edited by marin; 05-25-2019, 03:52 PM.


    Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by marin View Post

      These days Yama King is more a title than a distinct type of entity.
      True, though the title holds enough power to remake it’s holder into something more than they were before. Ravana is able to flaunt daylight, and so is clearly not a vampire anymore, Mikaboshi clearly is immortal without being bound by Paradox Etc. So the holder of the title becomes the title, more or less, or at the very least the power over souls and the Hell that houses them allow the titles holder to overcome their previous vulnerabilities.

      For more on Yama King’s I suggest you read 1000 Hells it goes into detail on them, some clues to Ravanas ascension can also be found in CB: Ravnos revised.

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      • #4
        Thanks guys.

        Is there a difference between those appointed by the Jade Emperor and those made by the Ebon Dragon and Scarlet Queen? I was a bit confused there, as some stuff talked about the August Personage of Jade and other stuff about them talked about the Scarlet Queen and Ebon Dragon


        My characters:
        Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
        Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng
        Shadow of Kings, Twilight barbarian scholar, master of lost First Age crafting techniques. Has a lot of clones. Picture by Jen.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
          Thanks guys.

          Is there a difference between those appointed by the Jade Emperor and those made by the Ebon Dragon and Scarlet Queen? I was a bit confused there, as some stuff talked about the August Personage of Jade and other stuff about them talked about the Scarlet Queen and Ebon Dragon
          If there was any originally, it's not relevant now. The Jade Emperor might best be understood as their ultimate boss, at least until he turned his back on them forever.


          Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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          • #6
            Yama Kings are a collection of Disapparate beings in modern times. Some appear to be Onceborn (mortal Ghosts ascended to Godlike status from devouring other damned souls), Neverborn (primordial beings older then Creation), Ascended/Damned Mortals, Maeljin Incarna, and Spirits of Nature. I would say some of them are also Demon the Fallen Style Demons/Earthbound, but that probably counts as Neverborn. I don't think you technically even need to be a spirit, I think if you were a badass enough Mage or Antediluvian you could stake out your own Hell, but you would probably become a Spirit after Ruling for hundreds of years.

            Basically if you can stake out Territory in Yomi wan and defend it, you are technically a Yama King. Some Yama Kings were Demons and Gods given rule over a personal Hell as part of the Natural Order to rehabilitate and or Punish Souls. Meaning they used to be part of the Celestial Bureaucracy. Some may have started out as Demons, or Neverborn, given duties to rein them in and other uplifted spirit/gods. They eventually grew greedy with the turning of the Age and most became corrupt and corrupted the Wan Xian, who in turn tricked the Hsien (which is a stupid name because they use the same Characters as Xian) and Hengeyokai into civil warring or dereliction of duty to distract them while they stole chi and became damned to the Thousand Hells.



            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Possessed View Post


              For more on Yama King’s I suggest you read 1000 Hells it goes into detail on them, some clues to Ravanas ascension can also be found in CB: Ravnos revised.
              For aditional "Fun" 1000 Hells is written from the perspective that Ravana has nothing to do with V:TM and is straight up the Character from The Ramayana and that the Ramayana more or less happened as litterally as possible Or at least as Litterally as Genesis happened in V:TM. Land of 8 Million Dreams runs with this interpretation.

              ANd there's definately some strong implications that The Ravnos 4th gen was basically an AKUMA rather than an ascended.

              But there's also places where the the Ravnos Antedeluvian is equated with Ravana from the Ramayana BUT NOT the Yama King Ravana, so take all as from someone's perspective.

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              • #8
                Ravana wasn't the Ravnos Antediluvian, and he wasn't a childe of Ravnos either, Ravnos Revised reveals he was a Ghoul of Ravnos and he disappeared and next time he is seen he is a Ruler of his own Hell and even offers Ravnos something akin to a pact to become an Akuma, which was declined.


                It is a time for great deeds!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                  Ravana wasn't the Ravnos Antediluvian, and he wasn't a childe of Ravnos either, Ravnos Revised reveals he was a Ghoul of Ravnos and he disappeared and next time he is seen he is a Ruler of his own Hell and even offers Ravnos something akin to a pact to become an Akuma, which was declined.
                  Er, Ravnos Revised suggests the Rakshasa was Ravnos's ghoul, not Ravana; the two are different people. (And Beckett's Jyhad Diary contradicts the Rakshasa=ghoul thing by identifying Hazimel as the Rakshasa.)


                  Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lian View Post

                    For aditional "Fun" 1000 Hells is written from the perspective that Ravana has nothing to do with V:TM and is straight up the Character from The Ramayana and that the Ramayana more or less happened as litterally as possible Or at least as Litterally as Genesis happened in V:TM. Land of 8 Million Dreams runs with this interpretation.

                    ANd there's definately some strong implications that The Ravnos 4th gen was basically an AKUMA rather than an ascended.

                    But there's also places where the the Ravnos Antedeluvian is equated with Ravana from the Ramayana BUT NOT the Yama King Ravana, so take all as from someone's perspective.
                    True. Personally I have never been too fond of Ravana-Ravnos connection, it really does not belong here. Ravana of 1k Hells is not, as you pointed out, connected to VtM at all and like said in my opinion that is the best portrayal of him. Back in the very old WW forums the writer of Ravana chapter of 1k Hells came out to say, after the week of Nightmares mess, that Ravana is not nor was ever meant to be Ravnos Antediluvian, Naturally he said nothing of any other Ravnos connection because at that time we didn’t yet have Revised CB: Ravnos and no one thought to ask about that.

                    But like many other things in WoD we never got a final official answer to the matter and so the truth is for each ST to decide at their table.

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                    • #11
                      Futhermore, in 1000 Hells Ravana is strongly portrayed as a Yang demon or Yang entity, as the werewolves and other werethings. Vampires are very focused in the Ying, they are undead, after all.

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                      • #12
                        What are the Yama Kings?

                        False.

                        The Yama Kings are false then, too.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Justycar View Post
                          Futhermore, in 1000 Hells Ravana is strongly portrayed as a Yang demon or Yang entity, as the werewolves and other werethings. Vampires are very focused in the Ying, they are undead, after all.
                          He's a Spirit as of Now, so Apotheosis makes your previous Yin Yang alignment mostly irrelevant. If Tzimisce or Gangrel Transcended they would be likely Yang Spirits rather then Yin ones. And I posit he was a ghoul so he wouldn't necessarily be Yin.


                          It is a time for great deeds!

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                          • #14
                            In my own games, that mash bits of KotE with previous material from 1e World or Darkness, Dark Alliance: Vancouver & other stuff?
                            The product of Chimerstry 10, a twisted mind and blood ties gone awry.

                            The Yomi World is a twisted mirror of sorts of the Malkavians' Cobweb/Madness Network, a collective nightmare world spawned by the twisted ravings of a dead god of illusions dreaming under the the earth for far too long, further influenced by sympathetic unconscious contact of the antediluvian with its descendants, undead and living.

                            Because that's the true sin that consigns certain mortals to enter the Yomi World in death and then be spat back as a rabid undead monster - being the distant, forgotten, mortal descendants of a person that became a bloodthirsty nightmare monster in a time before history and touching the horror of its millenia of alien dreams/urges for a few seconds too far for their good, being blessed/cursed with an indirect embrace of sorts in the process, in a non-place where illusion is reality and will as powerful as vitae.

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                            • #15
                              Certainly an interesting take, but it does make the Wan Gui offshoots of the Antes.

                              In you're headcanon then Yomi is relatively new? like when did it pop up, 10k years ago? 4k years?

                              And were the Xian still separate blessed beings not involved with Cainites? It was just the twisted nightmares of the Antes that they were banished too? Even if I were to use your idea, I think I would like it as an origin of Yomi, like a Nightmare knot in the spiritworlds, but I would have several Demons and Yama Kings whose origins originate elsewhere but where caught in this web and mutated.

                              And Ultimately its evolved to be much more than either Malkav or Zapathsura put together.


                              It is a time for great deeds!

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