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[Literature] Clan Novel and other book discussion thread

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  • Draconis
    replied
    Some of the Council of Seven may have survived; the devs are intentionally "not showing the bodies on-screen" for that. (Though the Council itself is gone.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Herr Meister
    replied
    Originally posted by davidiot View Post
    it's in the Brujah Triology.
    They fight on a ship, 2 to 1. In the end they succeed in staking him and throwing him over board.
    Thank you sir!

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Speaking of Novels, Gehenna Final Nights, how much of what happened there inspired the "official" metaplot progression. Like the big one I see is they liked the idea of Vienna chantry being smashed. And Theo goes Rogue Camarilla for the Neonates.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by davidiot View Post
    it's in the Brujah Triology.
    They fight on a ship, 2 to 1. In the end they succeed in staking him and throwing him over board.
    Cool.

    I think the trilogies are still canon. Gehenna isn't and some elements of the Revised supplements.

    The Clan Novels are all canon because they're from 2nd Edition to Revised.

    Beckett's Jyhad Diary is the new Revised and V20 history.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 06-10-2019, 12:45 AM.

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  • davidiot
    replied
    it's in the Brujah Triology.
    They fight on a ship, 2 to 1. In the end they succeed in staking him and throwing him over board.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Sadly nowhere.

    It's literally just a line in the Camarilla book (or maybe the Anarch).

    There's a lot of "Dropped a Bridge on Them" moments in books.

    * Hardestadt gets an actual description of his death
    * Karsh is just mentioned as happening like its described here
    * Lucita is implied to have been killed by Talley (which is just bullshit, I'm sorry--it better not be true!)
    * Xavier is mentioned as being killed
    * The Council of Seven were destroyed
    * Quite a large number of Chicago by Night vampires

    Leave a comment:


  • Herr Meister
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    While it's not the most badass answer, I would assume they cheated.

    No vampire is invulnerable to a proper amount of preparation, modern weapons, or betrayal.

    EIther that or they might canonize the Withering to explain why no one has Disciplines over 5 anymore.

    I would say "almost no vampire" lol! But in any case, regarding the Disciplines only getting to 5, it might be a rather sistematic change as some of the powers we now have in the v5 are even better than high level powers there were before, like the new Fortitude 5 power Skin of Marble, for instance (that was the name of a protean level 6 power btw) is better than every Fortitude power ever published. Still I hope they are going to publish more advanced powers anyway and rituals to cover the lack of paths in Blood Sorcery published in the first book.

    Now back to topic, I am rather curious of how were Xavier and Theo Bell were able to beat Karsh. In which book can I find this conflict?

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
    So, that makes me curious as to how on earth were Bell and Xavier able to defeat Karsh by themselves (for some reason that I cannot recall, I thought Becket was somehow involved).
    While it's not the most badass answer, I would assume they cheated.

    No vampire is invulnerable to a proper amount of preparation, modern weapons, or betrayal.

    EIther that or they might canonize the Withering to explain why no one has Disciplines over 5 anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • Herr Meister
    replied
    Originally posted by davidiot View Post


    Becket wasn't there when Xavier and Bell killed of Karsh, they did it by themselves.
    And Bell wasn't alone when he killed Vitel. It was a veritable ambush including, among many others, Jan Pieterzoon and a fuckload of his machinegun-wielding ghouls.

    So, that makes me curious as to how on earth were Bell and Xavier able to defeat Karsh by themselves (for some reason that I cannot recall, I thought Becket was somehow involved).

    Leave a comment:


  • davidiot
    replied
    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post


    Yes, white wolf has a habit of making these unlikely situations happen in their writing and novels. I think this example of Theo Bell defeating Marcus Vitel is even more absurd than the case of Alexander being beaten, because at least in Alexander's case there were some other factors at play and we don't know the traits (i.e. the character's sheet, so to speak) of the characters involved. While in the case of Theo Bell beating Marcus Vitel we have access to both character's sheet and Theo Bell, albeit relatively powerful in its own right, has rather modest traits specially when man compares it to Marcus Vitel's that is basically a methusaleh with a huge arsenal of powers at his disposal.

    Another weird situation is when Becket and Xaviar defeat Karsh. Even though we never had access to Becket's character sheet, we have Javiar and Karsh is WAY beyond the powers of Xaviar. So, we have many of these weird and unbelieveable situations in the history of the World of Darkness. Perhaps one could say that it has to do with the fact that some writers hired by WW have no understanding of the system, but then again I wouldn't know for sure.

    Becket wasn't there when Xavier and Bell killed of Karsh, they did it by themselves.
    And Bell wasn't alone when he killed Vitel. It was a veritable ambush including, among many others, Jan Pieterzoon and a fuckload of his machinegun-wielding ghouls.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    I've started my reviews of the Clan Novels:

    http://booknest.eu/reviews/charles/1...nnoveltoreador

    CLAN NOVEL: TOREADOR (REPRINT)

    4/5

    TOREADOR is the first novel of the VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE Clan Novel saga that began in 1999 and finished right before the ending of the Old World of Darkness tabletop roleplaying game. If that sounds like gobbledygook to you then you're probably not the intended audience of Goth nerds who ate these books up toward the turn of the millennium. Even so, I remember a lot of people picking up these books who'd never played a game with dice or character sheets in their life. It was a big influence on my STRAIGHT OUTTA FANGTON books as well as works like TRUE BLOOD and UNDERWORLD.

    The premise of Vampire: The Masquerade (and the World of Darkness setting in general) is a familiar one to urban fantasy fans. The world we know is built over a hidden reality where vampires, werewolves, mages, and other supernaturals compete for supremacy. The undead wield amazing powers, financial and otherwise, that protect them from hunters as well as other threats. They control the world and feed on humankind with impunity. Unfortunately, they are their own worst enemy with the vampires divided into 13 clans, multiple sects, and a conflict between elders as well as neonates.

    This book begins a 13 novel series that illustrates each of the clans as well as tells an overarching story. Among other things this means that while some of these books are going to be self-contained stories, others will just be open-ended. In this case, Toreador only starts the journey of its protagonists and you'll have to read the entire thing to see how it all ends up. I did read the original thirteen novels and while some were only so-so, others were great and I recommend it all to readers.

    Clan Novel: Toreador follows two members of the Toreador Clan, a clan of artistes and socialites who are the "pretty" vampires. The first, Leopold, is a Neonate who doesn't remember his past and makes a living as a sculptor who feeds off street kids he seduces into being his models. The second, Victoria Ash, is a sex-obsessed Elder of her clan that is deluded into believing her petty power games are important. Both of them have their immortal ennui-filled lives disrupted by an attack from the Sabbat as well as the discovery of a magical artifact.

    The Sabbat, for laymen out there, are the really evil vampires compared to the Camarilla or Anarchs who are just the sorta-evil vampires. They're a bunch of rampaging psychopath monsters who want nothing more than to feed on humanity openly while the others want to hide. The artifact, the Eye of Hazimel, is only hinted at being a gamechanger in their world but will not reach its full potential until later books. This book's appeal is primarily groundwork and explaining the World of Darkness to newcomers.

    The treatment of the Toreador clan was very well-done as we get the different sides of the Clan. The artistes are represented by Leopold, who struggles with the amorality of his work as well as his desire to give back to the world by creating beauty. However, he's unable to create anything original anymore due to the curse afflicting him. He can't even make sculptures of his fellow Kindred as something blocks his talent. Victoria Ash, by contrast, surrounds herself with art and misses how dark and disturbing all of it is. She also can't break free from using sex and desire as her only weapons despite the fact most Kindred can barely remember what sex is like since the lust for blood has replaced it.

    The book is a bit slow going in terms of both action as well as deep character angst. For the most part Leopold's story about not remembering his past isn't as evocative as Louis from Interview with a Vampire's "I need to kill people to survive." Likewise, Victoria Ash is very comfortable with her existence as a monster. The action doesn't begin until the end of the book and then it's everything going to hell.

    My favorite part of the book remains the opening where Leopold describes his night consisting of luring a young woman back to his home, convincing her to model for him, seducing her (with his powers or not), then feeding only to drive them away with a lure of drugs as well as cash. It's a crass and robotic story that fascinates. We also learn how he makes his money, what he does to secure his haven, and other details that set it apart from other vampire stories.

    This is actually a fairly short book at something like just under 200 pages. Part of this is the larger TPB format of the reissue versus the original mass market paperback but it's still meant to be a short comic book-esque read. You devour it in a day and move onto the next book or so I suspect it's intended. There's also the fact the book ends on a cliffhanger that isn't resolved for many books (since this is a 13 book series).

    In conclusion, Clan Novel: Toreador has quite a lot going for it. I like both Leopold and Victoria Ash as characters. However, I do think this is a book that should be read primarily by people at least loosely familiar with the World of Darkness. It's a big commitment to read 13 volumes because you aren't going to get the full appeal of the series unless you read the whole set. On the other hand, Crossroad Press reprinting the work and the fact people are used to longer series these days means that's not a dealbreaker for me.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 08-07-2019, 02:59 AM.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    *shows image of Buzz Lightyear*

    BOTCHES, BOTCHES EVERYWHERE!

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  • Herr Meister
    replied
    Originally posted by Vamps Like Us View Post
    In the spirit of how'd he do that? in the books Hesha Ruhadze manages to see the Obfuscated Assamite. He has a 1 Auspex, should not have been possible.

    Unfortunately I haven't read this novel yet. But there are some possible ways for that to happen. The assamite didn't pass a test for instance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vamps Like Us
    replied
    In the spirit of how'd he do that? in the books Hesha Ruhadze manages to see the Obfuscated Assamite. He has a 1 Auspex, should not have been possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post

    It's grea to know that sales are going well! I reallt hope all the books are going to be reprinted, so much good material there.
    Even so, I'm buying every copy and reviewing them just in case.

    I MUST HAVE THE RED DEATH TRILOGY!

    Leave a comment:

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