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V5: Grenades and Rocket Launchers

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  • V5: Grenades and Rocket Launchers

    Hi.

    How much damage would you say a grenade and a rocket would do in V5?

  • #2
    Something like 14+ superficial at center, and minus 1 per meter after 2-4 meters

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Argonot View Post
      Hi.

      How much damage would you say a grenade and a rocket would do in V5?

      It doesn't matter, a vampire with Fortitude 5 can now ignore it completelly! LOL!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by LastCourier View Post
        Something like 14+ superficial at center, and minus 1 per meter after 2-4 meters
        I was completely underrating a grenade's destructive power, then...

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        • #5
          Well, you asked about grenades and rockets, which encompass a wide variety of explosives and power. Getting hit directly with a rocket launcher is going to put a very bad dent in anyone, vampire or not. A more traditional frag grenade will do less damage.

          That said, I find I have to disagree with LastCourier. V5's rule system doesn't really work with AoE effects like that - there's still contested rolls to consider. As well, a shotgun blast at close range only has a +4 damage modifier. I would suggest that a rocket gets a +5 modifier, in that case. Both should shred someone at point blank. Combine with successes on the attack roll, that should be enough damage to put down even someone with Stamina 5.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MCN View Post
            Getting hit directly with a rocket launcher is going to put a very bad dent in anyone, vampire or not.
            Meh. I dunno. Getting hit with a rocket launcher might do +2 damage, and call for a Strength+Melee roll. It's the equivalent of swinging around a tire iron or baseball bat.

            Now... getting hit by a rocket launched from a rocket launcher is a different matter entirely...


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            • #7
              Originally posted by MCN View Post
              Well, you asked about grenades and rockets, which encompass a wide variety of explosives and power. Getting hit directly with a rocket launcher is going to put a very bad dent in anyone, vampire or not. A more traditional frag grenade will do less damage.

              That said, I find I have to disagree with LastCourier. V5's rule system doesn't really work with AoE effects like that - there's still contested rolls to consider. As well, a shotgun blast at close range only has a +4 damage modifier. I would suggest that a rocket gets a +5 modifier, in that case. Both should shred someone at point blank. Combine with successes on the attack roll, that should be enough damage to put down even someone with Stamina 5.
              Good, Ill use the plus 5 with the rocket. Sounds fair.

              Still dont know how to manage the grenade with that system. Theres a player on my chronicle who has Potence 5 and throws grenades like baseballs, so I guess I have to roll damage for the hit - Potence 5, again - and the explosion. That explosion is the one I dont know how to play.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Argonot View Post

                Good, Ill use the plus 5 with the rocket. Sounds fair.

                Still dont know how to manage the grenade with that system. Theres a player on my chronicle who has Potence 5 and throws grenades like baseballs, so I guess I have to roll damage for the hit - Potence 5, again - and the explosion. That explosion is the one I dont know how to play.

                Man, you're letting your players use military-grade weaponry? Geez. Ultimately, you could adapt the grenade rules from the NWoD book Armory if you have it, they're somewhat sensible. But...why even let the players HAVE that stuff? Seriously.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by elmerg View Post


                  Man, you're letting your players use military-grade weaponry? Geez. Ultimately, you could adapt the grenade rules from the NWoD book Armory if you have it, they're somewhat sensible. But...why even let the players HAVE that stuff? Seriously.
                  Because they enjoy it and it makes sense for their story? Some of the characters could have a contact in military, or the black market?

                  I never subscribed to this "if you need rules for grenades in a vtM game, you're playing it wrong" attitude. It's just badwrongfun.


                  If nothing worked, then let's think!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yeah its silly to say "what why would you need Grenades for a game about a Conspiracy of superhuman greedy wicked Vampires". Hell in my opinion the Tremere should have a lot of tricks to conjure and banish illegal weapons and explosives, and their biggest concern is to not have witnesses or leave forensic evidence. They probably have rituals that screw with the Forensics when using bullets or bombs or acid.


                    It is a time for great deeds!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MCN View Post
                      Well, you asked about grenades and rockets, which encompass a wide variety of explosives and power. Getting hit directly with a rocket launcher is going to put a very bad dent in anyone, vampire or not. A more traditional frag grenade will do less damage.

                      That said, I find I have to disagree with LastCourier. V5's rule system doesn't really work with AoE effects like that - there's still contested rolls to consider. As well, a shotgun blast at close range only has a +4 damage modifier. I would suggest that a rocket gets a +5 modifier, in that case. Both should shred someone at point blank. Combine with successes on the attack roll, that should be enough damage to put down even someone with Stamina 5.
                      Explosives are going to do a good deal more damage than shotguns even if the shotgun is loading slugs instead of shot. They're meant to tear apart sturdy metallic and ceramic constructions, after all; the human body pulps readily in the face of that kind of destructive power. It gets even worse if the blast is in an enclosed, sturdy location, like a tunnel; the force gets bounced and funneled back. What remains is typically so much chunky salsa.

                      (Can you tell that Shadowrun was my first rpg?)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                        Explosives are going to do a good deal more damage than shotguns even if the shotgun is loading slugs instead of shot. They're meant to tear apart sturdy metallic and ceramic constructions, after all; the human body pulps readily in the face of that kind of destructive power. It gets even worse if the blast is in an enclosed, sturdy location, like a tunnel; the force gets bounced and funneled back. What remains is typically so much chunky salsa.

                        (Can you tell that Shadowrun was my first rpg?)
                        That sounds like we're starting to get into white room scenarios. I don't feel that's best with moving, flexible targets that don't react the same way as solid matter to the concussive force. As well, there's the cinematic involved - what makes the best for the story, in a way that doesn't force you to come up with entirely new rule systems for it? I mainly picked +5 because it is stronger than a shotgun, and V5 seems to be a game that likes capping things out at 5 or 10. Given the weapon chart, I feel its best to consider weapons capping out at +5, given that the listed weapons only go up to +4. I can see +6 if we push it. Aiming much higher and we start risking the game's combat into all rocket tag, and minimizing the impact of banes and vampiric powers.

                        Also? https://www.quora.com/What-happens-t...uncher-warhead The answer provided here is quite underwhelming.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MCN View Post
                          That sounds like we're starting to get into white room scenarios. I don't feel that's best with moving, flexible targets that don't react the same way as solid matter to the concussive force. As well, there's the cinematic involved - what makes the best for the story, in a way that doesn't force you to come up with entirely new rule systems for it? I mainly picked +5 because it is stronger than a shotgun, and V5 seems to be a game that likes capping things out at 5 or 10. Given the weapon chart, I feel its best to consider weapons capping out at +5, given that the listed weapons only go up to +4. I can see +6 if we push it. Aiming much higher and we start risking the game's combat into all rocket tag, and minimizing the impact of banes and vampiric powers.

                          Also? https://www.quora.com/What-happens-t...uncher-warhead The answer provided here is quite underwhelming.
                          But did the inclusion of Shotguns risk the game's combat going all Shotguny? In a phone booth and some walks in and rassles you? Shotgun them? Fighting in a Club bathroom? Shotgun em? Riding on a carousel? Shotgun City!


                          It is a time for great deeds!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by elmerg View Post


                            Man, you're letting your players use military-grade weaponry? Geez. Ultimately, you could adapt the grenade rules from the NWoD book Armory if you have it, they're somewhat sensible. But...why even let the players HAVE that stuff? Seriously.
                            Yes. One of them is a black-market gun dealer. They''re ancillaes (not like you have to be one to have military weaponry anyway).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Rockets and Grenades are both utility weapons which are defined by their payload. For instance a rocket with just high explosive will cause damage in an area and will easily destroy a car or part of a house. On the other hand if the rocket is fitted with an anti-armor shaped charge payload, the explosion will do very little damage to the surrounding area but will essentially produce a split second cutting torch that rips through tank armor. Any vampire hit by an anti-armor rocket directly is taking Aggravated damage. The same sorts of distinctions apply to grenades which have even more variety. Though I should point out that unless the person firing the rocket is using specific modern versions with back blast safety features, just firing the rocket inside an enclosed space will pulp everyone in the room regardless of where the rocket goes or hits.

                              Using military grade weapons in a vampire game is less a worry about them defaulting to that in all situations and more about understanding the many nuanced problems that can arise from players going full action movie without understanding how the weapons actually function.

                              I mean just using the shotgun example, how many STs make the vampires take the time to surgically remove all the buckshot their characters soak up in a given gun fight? A couple of enemies armed with AA12s or Saigas can utterly riddle a vampire head to toe with pellets. It might not be fatal to a kindred by good luck trying to enter any government building, airport, or even many high schools which have metal detectors.

                              Besides when it comes to mil-spec weapons the one you really have to worry about is sniper rifles. Highly accurate, next to no collateral damage, and easily viable up to a mile away with a decent shooter or perhaps a remote firing station. Add in things like specialty ammunition and even greater shooting skill and things get very deadly in a hurry.

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