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Ideas on the ritual Chill of the Windsaber

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  • Ideas on the ritual Chill of the Windsaber

    I know this ritual is old, but there is a player in one of my tables that was looking at old high level rituals for his character and he said he liked the concept, but that the rules for Chill of the Winsaber (an old level 7 ritual) are rather messy. He wants the ritual, but with a better system. I thought that maybe making the roll a resisted one (and changing the dicepool to something using Occultism as I don't think firearm is very accurate for a ritualistic thing like this) would be a good idea, but said that I would have to evaluate it well. What do you guys think? Do you think it would be fair for a level 7 ritual? Also, do you guys have any idea of any other way to make the ritual viable using v20 rules?

  • #2
    Can you post the rules as written, for reference?


    Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by pang4 View Post
      Can you post the rules as written, for reference?

      Sure, here it is:

      Chill of the Windsaber
      This ritual enables the vampire Thaumaturgist to create a
      sheet of telekinetic force so thin and so accurate that it can
      decapitate anyone toward whom the vampire points his
      finger. The effects of this ritual are additionally terrifying
      because all the viewers see is the head separating from the
      body. The effects of this ritual are deadly to almost any
      creature with a head, including vampires. The
      Thaumaturgist must make a Perception + Firearms roll
      (difficulty 8) to target the windsaber. The victim does get a
      slim chance to avoid the effect by making a single success
      on a simple roll using Dexterity + Empathy (difficulty 9). A
      one-inch by two-inch piece of thin, clear glass is required.
      It must be snapped in two by the Thaumaturgist for the
      ritual to activate. The vampire casting the ritual does not
      have to see the target, but must know where she is.

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      • #4
        Doesn't anybody have any idea on how to rework this ritual?

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        • #5
          According to the rework of Rituals in Rites of the Blood V20, the roll would be Int+Occult, difficulty 10 (3 + Ritual Level).


          Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by pang4 View Post
            According to the rework of Rituals in Rites of the Blood V20, the roll would be Int+Occult, difficulty 10 (3 + Ritual Level).

            The maximum difficulty is 9, if I'm not mistaken. In any case that would be the roll to cast the ritual , i.e. prepare the ritual etc (and this has in any case always been Int + Occult) and then you would have a roll to target someone with the attack etc. The common complaint about this ritual is that it's a level 7 ritual and still the target only need a single success (that could be very easy to achieve by just spending a Willpower point etc) in a test to resist its effects, what I must agree is very unfair. So that's why the first thing that came to mind was changing it to a resisted one to make it fair.
            Still I was hoping someone could come up with a better alternative for the ritual, the common complaint in general is the lack of high level rituals published by WW. What I fear is that I wll have to create many rituals myself to fill this gap, so that my players stop complaning lol.

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            • #7
              I LIKE that there aren't any high level rituals. Tremere are pseudo-vampires. They stole vampirism, they stole an anyedeluvian, they stole a place at the table. It makes sense they don't have access to Elder powers available to real vampires. They get their power through versatility, not brute force.

              If you want an analogy, look up the LvL5 ritual "Night of the Red Heart". Also kills someone at a distance ^^


              Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pang4 View Post
                I LIKE that there aren't any high level rituals. Tremere are pseudo-vampires. They stole vampirism, they stole an anyedeluvian, they stole a place at the table. It makes sense they don't have access to Elder powers available to real vampires. They get their power through versatility, not brute force.

                If you want an analogy, look up the LvL5 ritual "Night of the Red Heart". Also kills someone at a distance ^^

                Your assumption is wrong in almost every sense and sounds like a whinning tremere-hater. The Tremere don't lack high level rituals, nor high level powers for the matter lol (just read a little about the setting and its story to know how many times they evoked frithtening rituals and powers, like the one that cursed the entire assamite clan and so many other instances, but in any case you look like you started playing last week, so whatever).

                WW published some high level rituals throughout the years and there were quite a few described in a more plot device/fluf way. The problem is that there are not enough and in the case of Necromancy things are even worse and absurd. That WW didn't publish that many high level rituals for Thaumaturgy is already problematic, but at least they published some throughout the years, but in the case of Necromancy is outrageous that WW didn't publish a single high level one (not counting plot devices and story fluf), But at the same time they published Abyss rituals up to level 9! So the problem s not with blood sorcery, but rather of inconsistency...

                Night of the Red Heart is an interesting ritual, but not a very practical one and it's a level 5. My player wants something that fits with the style of his character (and I really don't want to let him buy Sands of time as it's too op in my opinion as is Divorce of the Soul and Chain of the Bloodline). So, I was hoping someone here could offer some alternative, but reading your post and the lack of interest in the forum, I'm beginning to think I've commited a mistake and/or perhaps I should just adapt some rote from Dark Ages Mage to him.
                Last edited by Herr Meister; 06-08-2019, 08:11 PM.

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                • #9
                  I would require having Movement of the Mind as it is a ritualized development of the concept. Much like there are rituals that improve Conjuring. Honestly its a pretty cool name I'd probably rework it as a ritual that MoM members can use to make Telekinetic blades instead of "SURPRISE YOUR DEAD" rituals. So an advanced ritual that allows the Thamuaturgist to attack with the equivalent of a Greatsword with difficulty to block/dodge increased by 2.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lian View Post
                    I would require having Movement of the Mind as it is a ritualized development of the concept. Much like there are rituals that improve Conjuring. Honestly its a pretty cool name I'd probably rework it as a ritual that MoM members can use to make Telekinetic blades instead of "SURPRISE YOUR DEAD" rituals. So an advanced ritual that allows the Thamuaturgist to attack with the equivalent of a Greatsword with difficulty to block/dodge increased by 2.

                    Yes, I also love the name and I would prefer another system instead of making it an instant kill. I also agree that it should be linked with Movement of the Mind, like Major Creation is linked with Path of Conjuring. In your example the concept would remain similar, but taking away the chance to destroy the opponent instantly (at least not as easily) I would argue that the ritual's level should be lowered as well to reflect this change.

                    I think I like this concept, now I just need to create the exact rules as to how much damage it can cause and so on, the increased difficult to dodge/block makes a lot of sense as well as the attack would be much harder to detect, similar to that old Obfuscate (I now don't remember the name of the power) power that makes your weapon invisible etc. Thank you very much for sharing your view.

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                    • #11
                      I meant to say Level 5 ritual. Gives you an invisible sword you can take anywhere that probably gives you a pretty awesome surprise option.

                      Requires an Alterness check of 9 to notice or the first attack is surprise(or equivalent powers that give you auto surprise protect like Dementation). Increase difficulty to block dodge by 2.

                      LEts see Damage I'd either go towards WP or MoM+ something...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lian View Post
                        I meant to say Level 5 ritual. Gives you an invisible sword you can take anywhere that probably gives you a pretty awesome surprise option.

                        Requires an Alterness check of 9 to notice or the first attack is surprise(or equivalent powers that give you auto surprise protect like Dementation). Increase difficulty to block dodge by 2.

                        LEts see Damage I'd either go towards WP or MoM+ something...

                        That looks good. I think that the modifier could be based on the amount of successes on the ritual casting + WP. Like you create the Telekinetic Blade when casting the ritual, the amount of successes would mean the power of the blade when created. When using it it would cause damage based on WP + successes when casting the ritual. To hit I think we could use Perception + Occultism (that is basically standard for most mystic attacks) or the more physical option of Dextery + Melee, but I prefer the former given the mystic nature of the attack.

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