Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Camarilla fully backing Scientific Advancement?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Camarilla fully backing Scientific Advancement?

    So curious I'm optimistic of science and the future, and eventually cracking viable fusion.

    So lets say the Camarilla, I'm going pre V5 Camarilla for the sake of this argument, fully backs an initiative to advance certain technologies, how well could they help advance certain technologies?

    The biggest boon I'm proposing is they are essentially secretly funding Trillions, literal trillions, into scientific projects. Like say several inner circle members go full techy and plan to take over the world by getting their foot into technologies that will explode their wealth and resources. So the big deal is they secretly and corruptly ensure its funded.

    So we seem to have suggestions Vampires are not the best at innovation whether Science or Art. But we see with the True Brujah while they are not the best at innovating they do still innovate, and they are superb at perfecting technology using established concepts. The True Brujah have access to cutting Edge, like black ops America level tech or slightly above, computers and other technologies by just having Experts work on efficiency.

    So the biggest Vampire backers I can think of for Pushing Tech are

    True Brujah with their Philosopher Scientist faction

    The Banu Haquim Scientific Councils, I believe the Seat of Copper is computers I forget off the top of my Head.

    And just a Join Camarilla venture using Pure Money and a large pool of interested Kindred.

    So just by having secret conspiracies as a thing you can ensure tech advancement, and how much further does it go with advanced Kindred who personally have Traits of Intelligence and Science past 5 and Disciplines like Auspex and Celerity which can allow them to alter their perception or Thaumaturgy and other Disciplines which allow them to cheat.

    So rather than make tech that relies on Occult infrastructure, they could still use occult infrastructure to say make breakthroughs. So use magic to allow them to make discoveries but then advance the technology so it doesn't really on magic at all. Like Auspex or Temporalis allows you to cheat in a way that would say cost hours and billions of dollars of instruments, or flat out allow you to cheat do impossible things, like Magic reassembling burnt books or Temporalis peaking back and forth through time. Or imagine a Psychometry Combo discipline that instead of reading emotional context or events of objects is used to just completely assess its composition or the nature of how it formed. Like using it to read a Meteor or maybe even backtrack on a sunbeam to access the nature of its origin in Solar Fusion.

    These are things I always come back too.

    Just imagine a 100billion dollar Facility dedicated to inspecting the nature of Obtenebration alone.

    And what if Dr. Netchurch was given a 500 Billion Dollar Budget, multiple ghoul and Kindred experts and an underground James Bond like Science facility. What sort of advancements on genetics could they make? I imagine the Camarilla even in a normal game probably have secretly experimented with human cloning.

    We need more examples of Super Scientist Elders, but a lot of the issue is Kindred Scholars wouldn't have access to the principles only advanced in the last hundred and fifty years. And so a lot of the Elders instead dipped into Occult rather than Science. But what about say an Old Alchemist or Crafter who kept advancing. It would be cool to have some canon Methuselah Scientists who use insanely high level Disciplines in a precise scientific fashion. I imagine Tzimisce itself has insane levels knowledge in Medicine alone, but it is a creature that is no longer Human and probably closer to a presence.


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    The only problem I see is that Elders are more likely than the technocracy to see technology as a tool that can be used against them rather than to benefit themselves. The Anarchs love promoting technology and solutions because they have a small love of humanity left in them but if a Elder discovers the cure for cancer, I can't help but wonder if they might keep it under wraps unless it is very profitable for them as they worry about overpopulation or something otherwise cold and humane.

    The Camarilla is kind of a non-racist Illuminati now that I think about it.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well yes, but this thought exercise is for a situation where the current elite of the Camarilla is invested in Technology, and that culture starts dripping down to their childer and catspaws. Whether its because say Hardstadt and a few of the other Methuselahs and Elders pulling the strings were either replaced over time or in this particular setting just had a higher number of them seeing the light so to speak. What I'm saying is if it wasn't the issue, and only on the day to day level do you encounter technophobic Elders but in this scenario more and more of them, or at least the literal richest of them, are backing the potential for exponential technological growth.

      Like say if a cabal of Methuselahs understood wow if we shepard things just right maybe we can be the Princes of Mars. That type of far thinking.


      It is a time for great deeds!

      Comment


      • #4
        the Camarilla has always backed scientific advancement, and they're supposedly instrumental in the success of the industrial revolution and the relatively fast rise of science

        this effort wasn't made for the love of technological advancement, but rather to evolve the more skeptical scientific paradigms that would make the modern masquerade possible (as well as the unwanted side effects)

        however, and more importantly, the Camarilla itself isn't responsible for the technologies that sprang up,
        they simply supported the humans that were already engaged in the process

        and in these modern nights, it's even less possible for the Camarilla to take an active stand in technology,
        mostly because the dominant states usually have the army cease new technologies and prevent their spread for some periods of time (can go to 10 to 50 years, not sure),
        which could constitute a masquerade breach by Camarilla standards (Camarilla forbids involvement in government at that level...actually, both sects do)



        -

        Comment


        • #5
          I know Vampires aren't responsible for tech Advancement, I am specifically talking about a thought exercise scenario for doing a specific odd chronicle kind of like how in revised you had advice in the players guides to do games with a twist, like Werewolf talks about playing Werewolves in the steam punk era or during an Invasion from Alien conquerors.

          And its debateable how much they are allowed to manipulate things. Basically I saw it as you can do whatever you can get away with. And this is too ambiguous a project to just have it a one off in an established chronicle, it alters the setting.

          But remember Sabbat Lasombra have their own Damn submarine...its not a Relic ghost sub, its a full on Submarine they off the records obtained.

          So in this alternate setting scenario what happens if the Movers and shakers of the Camarilla invest the lions share of their project money/resources on ambitious tech goals?


          It is a time for great deeds!

          Comment


          • #6
            Sounds like a potentially cool chronicle and might work well as a crossover with Mage the Ascenscion, with the Camarilla trying to advance human science running headfirst into the Technocratic Union trying to slow it down and suppress it. But other than that their agendas match up very closely, so whether they fight or cooperate is up in the air.

            Even if you did not want to do a crossover there is a lot of other cool stuff you could do, chronicle wise. Recruit people with relevant skills in computer or technology, fund specific projects, subvert tech companies, manipulate public discourse, manipulate politicians to support scientific research. Lots of stuff for a coterie to do.

            Though when you say 'literally trillions' it makes me think you either do not understand what a trillion is or that your sense of scale is off.

            Comment


            • #7
              No when I say trillions I mean trillions. And I don’t mean in one go, I mean over a period of time trillions are spent. And also since this is a fictional setting things like secret Pentagons, and underground cities (like the Mile deep Umbrella Facility) are built.

              Or like that one Amadeus Cho story arch from a decade Ago where Amadeus spends 500 billion dollars on A Multiverse scanning device to find Hercules.

              I’m talking secret national defense budget, secret NASA type expenditure.

              The Technocrats spend what would essentially be trillions on secret infrastructure after all, but they keep it hidden because it could tank the economy.


              It is a time for great deeds!

              Comment


              • #8
                While I like the notion of adding some moral ambiguity to Kindred stewardship over humanity, the pragmatist in me can't help but raise the question that if trillions are up for grabs in the R&D fund, why wouldn't that cash be used for more useful and arguably more concrete results in other big projects?

                For instance you could easily build a vampire focused "company town" in the middle of no where for a fraction of the research budget being suggested. Imagine an entire vampiric subterranean city with an Industrial Data Center or something similar on the surface. You wouldn't even need to maintain the masquerade in the underground because you could just bring in a mortal herd at a young age and both condition them to be subservient from birth and ensure that they have no knowledge of the outside world so even if they did escape they couldn't even communicate what they know. Given the fact that vampires have unlimited lifespans part of this project would be raising a few generations of humans so they had no knowledge of the outside world. In the real world we already have instances of homeless communities which are multigenerational at this point, so having a vampiric aspect to it is more of a small story tweak than creating something from whole cloth.

                Yes this is taking my proclivities for manse building in 2nd edition Exalted and combining it with something like the core vampire city from Seraph of the End, but when you are talking huge budgets like this, then the possibilities for setting level game shifts becomes a thing. Vampires are supposed to be the nocturnal lords of the cities, but what happens to the setting if the vampires start building the cities from the underground up?

                I am not talking about a utopian ideal like Carthage 2.0, but instead I am looking at this from the perspective that too many mortal cities are becoming problematic for Vampires to exist in thanks to technological advancements like city wide video surveillance networks, facial recognition data bases, and cheap infra red sensors that allow anyone with an amazon account to hunt vampires by predator vision.

                Having an underground city with only one clan/bloodline in residence makes for a some what boring baseline, but it counters several aspects of the setting which are straining due to modern technology and ensures a greater degree of security than just having random coteries wandering all over the place.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm all for that too, it sounds like a Ventrue version of the Chatterlings from the Talmaherah.

                  Or what about Ventrue buying their own Island, like in South America or Greece or Italy or anywhere, and populating it with suitable kine. Have it as kind of a retreat. I remember talks of similar experiments with Revanents.

                  But yeah what could Vampires do with perfecting Cloning? How could full blown billion dollar backed Genetic Engineering Facilities cooperating with Sorcerers to Research and Create Revanents?

                  Still kind of confused with Revanents with Thaumaturgy as a favored Discipline, some have suggested letting them just use Sorcery, otherwise they would be useful mostly in that they could perform level one rituals?

                  But elder Level Auspex could make insane breakthroughs in Chemistry from their Analysis and Microscopic vision enhancements.

                  And basic sorcery, even simple Thaumaturgy of the lower levels could cut a lot of corners with science. Imagine enhancing storage with Blood Runes, or replicating the effects of having a Bluetooth Access microprocessor in your head using Sorcery and science.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would imagine the Camarilla would actually oppose the advancement of technology. Since it's heavily implied that the Elders (who run the show) prefer to stick to old age practices. Also, the development of technology makes the Masquerade increasingly more difficult to maintain, and makes mortals increasingly more difficult to repel in the event of a breach.

                    Wasn't there something in the lore about how the Ventrue lobbied against research into nuclear weaponry, out of fear they would be caught in the bombing of cities?

                    One of the big selling points on vampirism being a curse in WoD is that you stagnate. You don't change, but the world around you does. And even the Brujah, a clan who's entire shtick revolves around embracing change, can't seem to build anything of lasting importance, before they start trying to tear it all down again.
                    Last edited by Nyrufa; 06-18-2019, 07:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                      I would imagine the Camarilla would actually oppose the advancement of technology. Since it's heavily implied that the Elders (who run the show) prefer to stick to old age practices. Also, the development of technology makes the Masquerade increasingly more difficult to maintain, and makes mortals increasingly more difficult to repel in the event of a breach.

                      Wasn't there something in the lore about how the Ventrue lobbied against research into nuclear weaponry, out of fear they would be caught in the bombing of cities?

                      One of the big selling points on vampirism being a curse in WoD is that you stagnate. You don't change, but the world around you does. And even the Brujah, a clan who's entire shtick revolves around embracing change, can't seem to build anything of lasting importance, before they start trying to tear it all down again.

                      I've specifically addressed this, treat this as a thought exercise and an alternate scenario. Its a scenario were Tech curious Ancients that are the movers and shakers of the current Camarilla are backing this.

                      And its not just one Vampire inventing everything, its not a Victor Von Doom situation. Its a bunch of engineers, scientists and researchers involved in multiple projects and only a small fraction of them being vampires.


                      It is a time for great deeds!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post


                        I've specifically addressed this, treat this as a thought exercise and an alternate scenario. Its a scenario were Tech curious Ancients that are the movers and shakers of the current Camarilla are backing this.

                        And its not just one Vampire inventing everything, its not a Victor Von Doom situation. Its a bunch of engineers, scientists and researchers involved in multiple projects and only a small fraction of them being vampires.

                        In that case, I agree with Thoth's idea of creating some kind of underground city, where vampires can exist in relative peace, without the SI breathing down their necks.

                        I'm a bit skeptical of a multi generational herd being raised underground, though. Since I'm sure that would play havoc on their biological development. But I could see them taking a page from the Sabbat's book, and breeding them into Revenant families. That way, you get a self sustaining blood supply, who is both completely subservient, and is able to contribute to the work force!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                          In that case, I agree with Thoth's idea of creating some kind of underground city, where vampires can exist in relative peace, without the SI breathing down their necks.

                          I'm a bit skeptical of a multi generational herd being raised underground, though. Since I'm sure that would play havoc on their biological development. But I could see them taking a page from the Sabbat's book, and breeding them into Revenant families. That way, you get a self sustaining blood supply, who is both completely subservient, and is able to contribute to the work force!
                          Revenants - Its mostly the koldunic rituals and bonds with those demons of the land that make revenants work - creating a new line wouldn't work without something outside of the Camarilla's normal influence.

                          Look at the ones outside of the Tzimesce's (current) influence -
                          - D'habi - Created by Baali
                          - Ducheski - Stolen by Tremere, were the Krevcheski Tzimesce line
                          - Enrathi, Marijava & Rafastio- True Black Hand
                          - Kairouan Brotherhood - Assamite Sorcerors
                          - Rosselini - Giovanni
                          - Servants of Anushin-Rawan (Ventrue, with Fae blood in the populace contributing to the Revenant line being created)

                          The Hermetic style Thaumaturgy of the Tremere doesn't have the power to make revenant lines, it takes something weird to kick off the process.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Illithid View Post
                            - Kairouan Brotherhood - Assamite Sorcerors

                            And look who just joined the Camarilla, and started offering to share their Blood Sorcery expertise.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                              And look who just joined the Camarilla, and started offering to share their Blood Sorcery expertise.
                              The faction of Assamites that aren't connected with their Sorcerer supreme?
                              Even if it did happen in V5, with rules and the like for revenants, it can't happen in the time-scope that the game plays out, it needs multiple generations of mortals to craft a line.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X