Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Camarilla fully backing Scientific Advancement?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Eldagusto
    started a topic Camarilla fully backing Scientific Advancement?

    Camarilla fully backing Scientific Advancement?

    So curious I'm optimistic of science and the future, and eventually cracking viable fusion.

    So lets say the Camarilla, I'm going pre V5 Camarilla for the sake of this argument, fully backs an initiative to advance certain technologies, how well could they help advance certain technologies?

    The biggest boon I'm proposing is they are essentially secretly funding Trillions, literal trillions, into scientific projects. Like say several inner circle members go full techy and plan to take over the world by getting their foot into technologies that will explode their wealth and resources. So the big deal is they secretly and corruptly ensure its funded.

    So we seem to have suggestions Vampires are not the best at innovation whether Science or Art. But we see with the True Brujah while they are not the best at innovating they do still innovate, and they are superb at perfecting technology using established concepts. The True Brujah have access to cutting Edge, like black ops America level tech or slightly above, computers and other technologies by just having Experts work on efficiency.

    So the biggest Vampire backers I can think of for Pushing Tech are

    True Brujah with their Philosopher Scientist faction

    The Banu Haquim Scientific Councils, I believe the Seat of Copper is computers I forget off the top of my Head.

    And just a Join Camarilla venture using Pure Money and a large pool of interested Kindred.

    So just by having secret conspiracies as a thing you can ensure tech advancement, and how much further does it go with advanced Kindred who personally have Traits of Intelligence and Science past 5 and Disciplines like Auspex and Celerity which can allow them to alter their perception or Thaumaturgy and other Disciplines which allow them to cheat.

    So rather than make tech that relies on Occult infrastructure, they could still use occult infrastructure to say make breakthroughs. So use magic to allow them to make discoveries but then advance the technology so it doesn't really on magic at all. Like Auspex or Temporalis allows you to cheat in a way that would say cost hours and billions of dollars of instruments, or flat out allow you to cheat do impossible things, like Magic reassembling burnt books or Temporalis peaking back and forth through time. Or imagine a Psychometry Combo discipline that instead of reading emotional context or events of objects is used to just completely assess its composition or the nature of how it formed. Like using it to read a Meteor or maybe even backtrack on a sunbeam to access the nature of its origin in Solar Fusion.

    These are things I always come back too.

    Just imagine a 100billion dollar Facility dedicated to inspecting the nature of Obtenebration alone.

    And what if Dr. Netchurch was given a 500 Billion Dollar Budget, multiple ghoul and Kindred experts and an underground James Bond like Science facility. What sort of advancements on genetics could they make? I imagine the Camarilla even in a normal game probably have secretly experimented with human cloning.

    We need more examples of Super Scientist Elders, but a lot of the issue is Kindred Scholars wouldn't have access to the principles only advanced in the last hundred and fifty years. And so a lot of the Elders instead dipped into Occult rather than Science. But what about say an Old Alchemist or Crafter who kept advancing. It would be cool to have some canon Methuselah Scientists who use insanely high level Disciplines in a precise scientific fashion. I imagine Tzimisce itself has insane levels knowledge in Medicine alone, but it is a creature that is no longer Human and probably closer to a presence.

  • Illithid
    replied
    I had a thought last night that kind of permeated my dreams for a way of creating Revenants, and it actually links with Tech Science.

    The Technocracy (And possibly others) would have tools for determining a meta-human nature, or it could be within the paradigm, I assume.
    With that kind of magi-tech paradigm, a bit of the right spheres could either create or assist in the creation of Revenants - Force creation is a bit much, but the right semi-suppressor of Vitae could overcome the Ghoul infertility issue allowing a Ghouled woman to carry a Ghouled fetus to term, with it growing (and Aging) while still having vitae in it's system when gestating; which is (I believe, and in the games our extended players all participate in) the crux of the issue why Ghouls don't usually create revenants and why Spiritual (often fertility spirits) intervention is required to make a Revenant family work.

    So, if the Technocracy could potentially facilitate it with their technology but it would be against their agenda (Probably)
    So you're looking for Theft of the Tech, a Rogue operative, or splinter operation that believes in uplifting all of humanity in becoming a form of Homo-superior (as long as they believe in the correct world view) Even if it's just a short term solution to help wipe out other mages or another supernatural before wiping out the Revenants.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Well Sorcerer revised which talks about Tech Sorcerer/Science is a general World of Darkness Book. And Werewolf already has super science, as they have Cyborgs and DNA in their corebooks. Its just they are more likely to fight the results of mad scientists rather then the team of scientists that made them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    They are studying the Ducheski and haven’t reverse engineered them yet, but they are studying them.
    But that’s an interesting idea with the bane research. It would be fun if it went wrong and they accidentally created a line of Ferectoi/Revenant. I’ll totally use that idea for my next game.
    Let me know how that goes

    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    Also lets take into account that say the Camarilla also steals tech advancement from governments and industries around the world for their project, though things like Obfuscate to sneak into homes and steal info, Dominate and Auspex to steal knowledge or passwords at least, or just possessing the body of certain individuals involved in black ops projects and stealing the data directly.
    At some point I imagine they will stumble upon some really good tech from say Pentex, DNA, and Techies.
    I can see the highest scientists and Engineers of such projects developing Enlightened Science paradigm of Sorcery. I always figured that is what DNA uses.
    Really, it all depends on what the game you're running is - Having Scientists working on developing science as a paradigm of Sorcery works for Mage games, but is pretty useless for Werewolf themes and games, it won't bring anything to it (even if the cosmology can be made to mesh)

    Just like Vampire, having info coming from the tech giants is probably going to be a best fit for just using influence and backgrounds; Maybe if that's a failure (Narratively) it'd be a good hook for lower level PCs to do a favour, or pay a favour to an elder; maybe even mid-power PCs if you're going to throw in Fomori or First Team Security.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Also lets take into account that say the Camarilla also steals tech advancement from governments and industries around the world for their project, though things like Obfuscate to sneak into homes and steal info, Dominate and Auspex to steal knowledge or passwords at least, or just possessing the body of certain individuals involved in black ops projects and stealing the data directly.

    At some point I imagine they will stumble upon some really good tech from say Pentex, DNA, and Techies.

    I can see the highest scientists and Engineers of such projects developing Enlightened Science paradigm of Sorcery. I always figured that is what DNA uses.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thoth
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
    In which the role of Kenshiro is played by Caine!
    To be fair I have yet to play a pre-history game where the PCs were gen 5 or so and it didn't turn into that sort of thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    They are studying the Ducheski and haven’t reverse engineered them yet, but they are studying them.


    And in tail end of revised they were considering giving the Justicar slot the Gangrel gave up to the Schismatic Assamites.

    But that’s an interesting idea with the name research. It would be fun if it went wrong and they accidentally created a line of Ferectoi/Revenant. I’ll totally use that idea for my next game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post

    This is a nonV5 thread... so V20/Revised...

    And enough time to effect the plot is arbitrary you could say they were in development for decades or even centuries in this scenario. Or they are starting from ground up. But no reason the game couldn't advance forward decades or Centuries more.

    And the Tremere have already been trying to reverse Engineer their own Revenant line from those whats their names Duchevi?
    Which Assamites were coming across in the metaplot before V20? I know it was the same schism, but I'm pretty sure that they weren't accepted as a member clan yet, so publicly doing anything weird would make things difficult, especially if it's seen as something that the Sabbat are known for

    Tremere stole the Krevcheski line from the Tzimesce and they are now called the Ducheski, they haven't created or reverse engineered them.

    If you want Revenants in the game for Camarilla; The Assamite Schismatics could bring the Kairouan Brotherhood in their defection from the core clan, say that they don't fit into the Militant Web-of-Knives plan because they've decided to "reclaim the blood" that was invested in the revenants. Or the Revenants weren't all up for worshipping Haquim before their mortal faiths.

    For plans that have been in place for a while, I'd still look at the bond with spirits or something considered dark and unnatural that fuels it working. Something that would make people question the morality of them existing and their usefulness.
    Using Banes of Lust to fuel the revenant line's transformation from just ghouls and getting a "Bloodline" Weakness and disciplines that reflect that.
    Personally I'd love to see Thirster Banes in a few games; using them to fuel the transition from Ghoul into Revenant lines would make sense - drawn by the quantities of Vitae used. The Revenants seeming to be without flaw until a vampire feeds from them and they get infected by the Thirster, changing in to a bloodworm.

    Otherwise - Lasombra Mystics conjuring Abyss spirits (Works well for the underground facility too)
    - Kiasd tracking down long removed descendants from the revenant lines and interbreeding the magic back in to restart a Revenant family.
    - Tremere have a breeding program that's almost at cloning levels, getting their Ducheski to breed as quickly as possible with each other and Mortals fed vitae, and have Ghouls become wet-nurses. Will lose many ghouls and mortals this way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    Ok, so lets say they do have the know how to make a revenant line.

    That still leaves
    - Not enough time for them to be created and affect the plot
    - V5 may not have Revenants in the system any way
    - New super-exclusive boys club Camarilla looks to be even less likely to accept Revenants than the old Camarilla
    - There's no longer any level 6+ powers or rituals to help create them (*Although, no power sets have explicitly given stats that state how they come in to creation)
    This is a nonV5 thread... so V20/Revised...

    And enough time to effect the plot is arbitrary you could say they were in development for decades or even centuries in this scenario. Or they are starting from ground up. But no reason the game couldn't advance forward decades or Centuries more.

    And the Tremere have already been trying to reverse Engineer their own Revenant line from those whats their names Duchevi?

    Leave a comment:


  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by Ideon View Post
    His direct childe (who was a mage in his own right for like 5 centuries before his Embrace) is kind of leading the Camarilla Assamites, so.
    Ok, so lets say they do have the know how to make a revenant line.

    That still leaves
    - Not enough time for them to be created and affect the plot
    - V5 may not have Revenants in the system any way
    - New super-exclusive boys club Camarilla looks to be even less likely to accept Revenants than the old Camarilla
    - There's no longer any level 6+ powers or rituals to help create them (*Although, no power sets have explicitly given stats that state how they come in to creation)

    Leave a comment:


  • Ideon
    replied
    Originally posted by Illithid View Post
    The faction of Assamites that aren't connected with their Sorcerer supreme?
    His direct childe (who was a mage in his own right for like 5 centuries before his Embrace) is kind of leading the Camarilla Assamites, so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    I’m expecting ghoulish side effects from the unwholesome denial of the sunlight, but we have Chatterlings already so we know similar things already exist for millennia. Like chstterlings they could regularly be replenished by orphans and kidnapped mortals.

    But cave fish are blind because they evolved inbred in caves for millions of years. A human population won’t go blind just because they live underground in a mere couple generations that is silly, and light still exists so they won’t be incentivized to go completely blind, perhaps just bad vision over all, or even enhanced night vision, or who knows if they start becoming revanent.

    Assuming we're talking about a literal city, and not just a network of cave tunnels, it's entirely possible to build some kind of electrical grid to keep the city illuminated for the mortals.

    Of course, building a literal city underground would take decades. But A) vampires / ghouls have all the time in the world to get it done, and B) disciplines can increase the work output many times over.

    Originally posted by Thoth View Post

    There are a couple of benefits to having true elder vampires run this program. The first is that if Gehenna hits, the modern world pretty much goes away and is replaced with mad max or fist of the north star.
    In which the role of Kenshiro is played by Caine!
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 06-21-2019, 11:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eldagusto
    replied
    I’m expecting ghoulish side effects from the unwholesome denial of the sunlight, but we have Chatterlings already so we know similar things already exist for millennia. Like chstterlings they could regularly be replenished by orphans and kidnapped mortals.

    But cave fish are blind because they evolved inbred in caves for millions of years. A human population won’t go blind just because they live underground in a mere couple generations that is silly, and light still exists so they won’t be incentivized to go completely blind, perhaps just bad vision over all, or even enhanced night vision, or who knows if they start becoming revanent.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thoth
    replied
    The biggest issue with the subterranean city is that the mortal population will be suffering from things like Vitamin D deficiencies and a host of related problems, not to mention circadian rhythm disfunctions. These issues wouldn't have been fully understood or be able to be countered until the last couple centuries at most. Not to mention that unless you have invested heavily into light sources, most of the population would be blind like many cave dwellers.

    The human farm that is entirely underground would probably work best as a form of anti-Gehenna project. Using modern knowledge and technology you can counter most of the issues from underground living. I could see a simple program where babies that are put up for adoption or left for sanctuary are genetically screened and picked up for the project. Then like the movie Soldier they are raised from birth to be the very best minions. Thanks to ghouling you don't have to worry about losing a top grade recruit to old age. Once you have a large enough breeding pool you seal of the system and let the experiment run until Gehenna.

    There are a couple of benefits to having true elder vampires run this program. The first is that if Gehenna hits, the modern world pretty much goes away and is replaced with mad max or fist of the north star. That sort of setting would be more like some elder vampires mortal lives so they would be ready to deal with the change in priorities. Additionally it is worth noting that Elder Vampires tend to get those nifty large scale Discipline powers, which would make running an underground city state far more simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gryffon15
    replied
    An underground human farm is one thing, but if these are the full on ancients of the kindred world, I might say that the ancients primary goal would not simply be to farm humans, but to create stable breeder populations of kindred that can sate their ancient tastes. Using their powers, time, and a variety of means to secure a completely isolated and secured underground facility, I imagine it wouldn't take more then a few decades or centuries before the ancients could work out a scheme to populate an underground bunker realm with children who know nothing else. Wait a few generations and throw out the occasional gesture to build up a cultural cult and then add vampires to the mix, supporting as many as possible. Another few generations down the line, the ancients can begin demanding sacrifice in exchange for their blessings and from that point on, they have an automated vitae farm supporting their immortal reigns.

    Then when you consider that the ancients in this scenario likely began experimenting over a millennia ago and they almost certainly had several maintained at once, rather then just one arbitrary location, you start to see the image of a vast tyrannical conspiracy built upon supporting the eternity of blood gods in ways that are almost unimaginably inhumane in their nature. Plenty of room to work with to pull some really chilling stuff with a narrative conceit like this...

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X