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Isn't Genius Loci too op!?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
    Well, I don't think it's so night impossible for vampires to make deals with spirits of the sun/fire. Both Cretheus and his childe Hillderic use many pacts with fire and sun spirits and have such spiritual minions at their disposal, they basically have a paradigm where they consider these entities as holy as they consider themselves.
    except Cretheus has both elemental mastery and spirit manipulation at level 5,
    doesn't matter the spirit's alignment, his magic will bypass it


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    • #17
      Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

      except Cretheus has both elemental mastery and spirit manipulation at level 5,
      doesn't matter the spirit's alignment, his magic will bypass it
      So you're saying they are forcing them into service!

      Ok, granted. But, in any case, that doesn't change anything about my argument. It's been some time since I've read Lair of the Hidden, so you're probably right about them using their powers to control the said spirits, still as I said, that changes nothing about the rest of my argument. The main point of my argument is that "nobody" is sure about the ways of the spirit world, or at least nobody should be so sure. The Werewolf perspective put them on a "holy crusade" against the enemies of Gaia and in this they consider Vampires and many other creatures as inherently "evil", the same way that their perspective gives them an univocal interpretation of the world and that is what I disagree with. The Cretheus/Hilderic examples were just to show that possible deals with sun spirits and vampires do happen as I doubt both Cretheus and Hilderic would force their will onto the spirits all the time, they probably have dealings etc, but that isn't the point of my argument.

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      • #18
        While we speak often of the "World of Darkness", in practice all the splats exist in their own particular versions of the World of Darkness. Lupines in Vampire are not necessarily the same as the Garou of Werewolf, just as the Kindred of Vampire are not necessarily the same as the vampires in Werewolf. Each gameline examines the residents of the setting within their own overarching worldview.

        As such, even if a vampire is a spiritually dead creature that is anathema to the world, that may only be true within the context of Werewolf: The Apocalypse. If we're talking about a Vampire game - where the PCs are vampires and they regularly deal with mostly vampire nonsense - Gaia-theory does not necessarily apply.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post

          So you're saying they are forcing them into service!
          I wouldn't say he's forcing them (I wouldn't know),
          but if he's powerful enough to command them, he's powerful enough to pacify them

          he's just not a good example, since his magic allows him to do anything,
          if there was a cainite who had helios friends without magic, that would be quite interesting

          Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post
          The main point of my argument is that "nobody" is sure about the ways of the spirit world, or at least nobody should be so sure.
          I agree. and for what it's worth, WtA's handling of the umbra is pretty silly imo, and certainly doesn't mesh well with the more..."classy" feel, or dark feel, of vtm

          but at the same time, I feel the other gamelines perspectives aren't really hurting vtm that much,
          in fact, I'd say it really adds a nice touch to the realities of the cainite condition and the tragedy that comes with it


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          • #20
            Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post

            Yes, I'd always tell him. Specially because at the moment the coterie is dealing with an all-powerful Koldun and I'm pretty sure the player is going to try to offer a deal with the spirits of the Koldun's domain. I'm still thinking about how will they answer his offer


            Contrary to Garou propaganda Spirits are just as venial and corrupt as humans.. they just have different directions.. For the right bribes maybe they will help.. or maybe they will play both sides against the middle.. because "fuck vampires" that's the danger of dealing with unearthly powers you can't just blood bond them.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Lian View Post
              because "fuck vampires" that's the danger of dealing with unearthly powers you can't just blood bond them.
              you can, actually

              you can bind them with their true name,
              and you can double-bind them if you give them a host and blood bond it


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              • #22
                Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                you can, actually

                you can bind them with their true name,
                and you can double-bind them if you give them a host and blood bond it

                And of course you can even bind them to objects creating interesting fetishes.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Herr Meister View Post


                  And of course you can even bind them to objects creating interesting fetishes.


                  (10 characters long message requirement)


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                    you can, actually

                    you can bind them with their true name,
                    and you can double-bind them if you give them a host and blood bond it

                    IF you have the time to do that when dealing with spirits in a hostile Koldun's domain... then you don't need to.

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