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Vampire Masquerade V20 Necromancy Rules

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
    Thaumaturgy has the Warding Circle vs. Ghosts ritual that can bar ghosts from entering, and cause them harm if they attempt to cross it.

    Also remember that anyone who knows where a ghost is positioned (say, by identifying its aura with Auspex) can do it minor harm by attacking it or just passing through it. It's not dignified and imposing like using flashy mystical disciplines on it, but if a ghost is haunting you it's possible to get temporary relief by chucking furniture at it until it's forced to give up or risk being dropped into a harrowing.
    Although it's worth questioning how many vampires actually know all that. Wraiths exist on a completely different layer of reality and obey their own esoteric rules (both in the sense of "Ghost Law" imposed by convention or the Hierarchy, and "Natural Ghost Law" that governs how their very beings function within the spiritual and physical worlds). If a vampire doesn't interact with ghosts regularly or have studied them, they may not know that "walking into their space or hitting them" will work.

    That's the sort of thing you'd need a good Occult or even Lore (Wraiths) roll to figure out.


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    • #17
      Originally posted by pang4 View Post
      @Illithid

      Agreed. Though the question seemed to imply magics available to the Tremere clan, and Thaumaturgy (though redefined to include all Blood Magic) tends to refer to the Tremere Clan Discipline.
      It does tend to, which is why I try to specify Hermetic when talking about the Tremere as a whole.

      Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
      Also remember that anyone who knows where a ghost is positioned (say, by identifying its aura with Auspex) can do it minor harm by attacking it or just passing through it. It's not dignified and imposing like using flashy mystical disciplines on it, but if a ghost is haunting you it's possible to get temporary relief by chucking furniture at it until it's forced to give up or risk being dropped into a harrowing.
      Yes it'll do damage (According to Wraith Rules) but not explicitly in Vampire rules, so it depends on what the ST wants to run.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
        Although it's worth questioning how many vampires actually know all that. Wraiths exist on a completely different layer of reality and obey their own esoteric rules (both in the sense of "Ghost Law" imposed by convention or the Hierarchy, and "Natural Ghost Law" that governs how their very beings function within the spiritual and physical worlds). If a vampire doesn't interact with ghosts regularly or have studied them, they may not know that "walking into their space or hitting them" will work.

        That's the sort of thing you'd need a good Occult or even Lore (Wraiths) roll to figure out.
        I'd imagine that most vampires who've been around more than a few decades have killed enough victims to be haunted at some point, and if you (a) have Auspex and (b) notice creepy things going down in your haven like walls bleeding or lit candles having a tendency to fall over and catch things on fire, taking a psychic look-see to find the cause isn't that much of a stretch. Nor is asking someone more knowledgeable about the subject if you have reason to suspect your problem is originating from beyond the grave. You'd still need an expert to give you real info about the metaphysics and society of the dead, but a person doesn't need to know much about entomology to break out a flyswatter when they hear buzzing. Though illithid does bring up a good point, if the Storyteller is relying solely on Vampire's abbreviated rules in the antagonists section rather than also using Wraith, non-occult solutions might be ineffective.

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        • #19
          I'd certainly go by Vampire rules in order to force the player to strike up a better plan than, "I flail", to take on the oppressor from beyond the grave. It would force a more dramatic confrontation and lead to a quest to either find someone that knows how to handle it (thus seeing how they get someone to assist) or in acquiring the knowledge and power for themselves.

          Generally I dislike the Rule of Ouch anyway, but Wraith has always been a strange game. It just feels wrong to have someone defeat a ghost by punching it. Something about that feels contrary to what ghosts are supposed to be, like a vampire that can casually walk in the daylight with no ill effects whatsoever. They either burn, feel lethargic, or at the very least lose their powers. A ghost is supposed to be intangible unless they choose otherwise. They always require some sort of psychic, ritualistic, technological, or otherwise "special" means of banishing them.

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