Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How many vampires do mortals kill in a year?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Celerity doesn't move you faster than a bullet.

    Also, ghouls aren't known for having much in the way of Disciplines beyond Potence 1.
    Then explain this?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Thoth View Post
      While it may be true that many vampires might know that Vienna was the location for the main chantry, I still haven't heard how any one other than an elder Tremere with counter Thaumaturgy could get past the multiple layers of defenses to find the place. Just trying to get past the ward that makes the entire chantry go off grid and makes any and all paperwork or records referring to it automatically disappear would make it near impossible for mortals to use a drone strike or even find the place. The various wardings make any attempt to attack in person completely pointless. With a clan discipline being dominate you can bet that most mortal agencies are heavily programed to either protect Tremere interests or at least function as an early warning system.

      So yeah, I'm not buying the Deus ex Machina of the central chantry being destroyed as being anything other than bad writing. Though White Wolf has always had a bad habit for treating the Tremere storyline like a hyperactive kid describing an action scene from a marvel movie.
      My personal theory is that it was Tremere himself who tipped off the SI. Saulot had won the fight against him and was in control of his body. The Council of Seven is bound to "Tremere" and the clan is bound to the Council. House and Clan Tremere suddenly belong to Saulot. That won't do. So Tremere's mind fled, took over Goratrix, and weakened Vienna's defenses before calling in the SI. Now the clan is decapitated and a new order can arise. The three major houses are Tremere (led by Karl Schrekt), Carna and Goratrix. And for some reason, both Carna and Schrekt "have heard the same voices": "Neither of us is wrong. We must be permitted to pursue our paths separately and come together when the time is right." House Goratrix is secretly led by Tremere himself. House Tremere are loyalists who would likely rejoin with the Antediluvian if he revealed himself. Carna still seems weak enough that she might be pushed back into the fold if forgiven for her actions.
      I'd say the destruction of Vienna is how Tremere will win his Clan back.

      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
      Except that it really isn't, as we had a thread all about discussing methods in which to defeat the SI, as well as reasons for why it is ultimately not able to sustain itself.

      Two reasons I put forth are the fact that 1 vampire is just as deadly in combat as an entire squad of hunters. Even if the SI does manage to successfully take out a few vampires in the city, they are probably going to suffer heavier losses than the enemy. Special forces training is NOT cheap, and only the blind zealots of the SoL would consider it to be an acceptable trade off, rather than forming some kind of compromised agreement with kindred after a while.
      One wonders how wars get fought when noone wants to see the lives of their soldiers threatened.

      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
      The other reason is that thanks to vampire mind control, either through Dominate, Presence, or outright Blood Bonds, the vampire can just get a hold of somebody from the tech department, and order them to purge all their data once they get back to headquarters. Sure, the thrall probably isn't making it back out of there alive, but that just means one less loose end to tie up.
      If there is somebody from the tech department who has access to all data and the ability to purge it as well as offsite backups, someone hasn't been doing a very good job when it comes to setting ground rules for data security. Additionally, V5 Dominate is far less powerful when it comes to giving orders that require the subject to actually use their own mind to enact them.

      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
      Also, their information came from Schrecknet, which was primarily focused on spying on everybody and everything. Rather than recording any kind of vampire lore. They might know who a vampire is, and where they're staying, but they have no idea what they're capable of. And a hefty chunk of that data is probably going to be focused on mortals, just as much as supernatural targets. And include everything from their eating habits, to their underwear size. Simply put, finding any kind of reliable or important pieces of information on the Nosferatu database is going to be a shit show.
      Good thing intelligence agencies have spent the last decades learning to sift through massive amounts of data then. Additionally, if nothing can be found there, what were the Nosferatu doing with it?
      (And yes, that SchreckNet doesn't contain too many vampire basics is definitely one of the upsides - the SI still has a lot of misconceptions and speculations when it comes to vampiric powers, though they've learnt enough stuff to be dangerous.)

      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
      Mortals were never the BBEG of Masquerade. That role has always belonged to the Antedeluvians. Mortals are a threat, certainly, and they almost wiped vampires out in the dark ages. But that was because the vampires didn't expect an uprising, and it was during a time when they walked around freely out in the open.
      So what does the very name of the game refer to then?

      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
      Have the SI managed to invent a bullet that transcends time itself? Because if they're still using ordinary firearms, then Celerity makes that an incredibly arrogant tactic. It doesn't matter how powerful the weapon is, if you can't hit anything with it.
      According to V5 core rules, Ghouls have a single level of a single discipline. If that happens to be Celerity, they either have a perfect sense of balance or rapid reflexes that allow them to avoid a -2 dice penalty on dodging firearms without cover. Neither results in being bullet-proof.

      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
      As for vampires going after other vampires during the day, how do you think most Kindred assassinate one another? If you're going after an Older VampireTM you don't want to be associated with it so it's not going to involve your ghouls but that probably is the best way to eliminate them. The Sabbat would do it that way if they weren't disdainful of ghouls and eager for diablerie.

      In my games, the Camarilla primarily does use mortal agents during the day when taking out cities. They're not people fighting in the streets like Anarchs or the Black Hand.
      I heard it works best if you paint the other side as terrorists or drug cartels and let law enforcement or intelligence agencies' heavy hitters deal with it. Never goes wrong. Totally fool-proof!
      Last edited by Cifer; 07-07-2019, 10:21 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cifer View Post

        One wonders how wars get fought when noone wants to see the lives of their soldiers threatened.

        If there is somebody from the tech department who has access to all data and the ability to purge it as well as offsite backups, someone hasn't been doing a very good job when it comes to setting ground rules for data security. Additionally, V5 Dominate is far less powerful when it comes to giving orders that require the subject to actually use their own mind to enact them.

        Good thing intelligence agencies have spent the last decades learning to sift through massive amounts of data then. Additionally, if nothing can be found there, what were the Nosferatu doing with it?
        (And yes, that SchreckNet doesn't contain too many vampire basics is definitely one of the upsides - the SI still has a lot of misconceptions and speculations when it comes to vampiric powers, though they've learnt enough stuff to be dangerous.)

        So what does the very name of the game refer to then?


        I heard it works best if you paint the other side as terrorists or drug cartels and let law enforcement or intelligence agencies' heavy hitters deal with it. Never goes wrong. Totally fool-proof!

        1 - I don't think the purpose of a war is to exterminate every last man, woman and child on the enemy side.

        2 - You don't even need proper security clearance to get the job done. Just destroy the server terminals, or data storage devices. Maybe go in for some routine maintenance and sneak a magnet into your pocket.

        3 - Not saying there isn't useful information on it, but it was my understanding that the SI didn't even get the full wealth of information. More like 1/3rd of it at most.

        4 - Once again, I'll state the reason why the First Inquisition was so successful is because there was no Masquerade. At least not in the same capacity it exists now. Vampires were brazen with their existence, and when the FI rose up, the world followed suit. The second time around, the world doesn't believe they even exist anymore, and the SI is trying to keep them a secret. Vampires don't fear individual humans rising up against them. They fear every human rising up against them. And unless the SI is willing to blow the lid off everything, this is a war they can not win.

        5 - Yes, and how quickly do people turn on their governments, when whistle blowers expose the less than civil methods in which they use for combating those terrorists? Sure, bugging people's electronic devices and using "enhanced interrogation" tactics might have been deemed by the government as a necessary tactic to defend their people from hostile powers. But the people didn't share their opinion on the matter, viewing it as an invasion of privacy, or violating of one's basic rights.

        The SI doesn't just have to worry about vampires in this situation. The vast majority of vampires did not choose to become what they are, and neither did the mortals who serve them. I'm sure it would be incredibly easy in the modern nights for them to garner sympathy from more rational members of society, who view them as people who were forced into unfavorable situations against their will. Even more so, when you remember that vampires have the power to influence both the mental and emotional spectrum. And having the government snatching people from their homes, executing them without a fair trial, or even subjecting them to stress tests to find out how much punishment their bodies can take is going to result in a pretty substantial backlash against the SI.

        Comment


        • #19
          Camarilla: Yes, let's use this NSA and CIA against the "terrorist" Sabbat!


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
            Two reasons I put forth are the fact that 1 vampire is just as deadly in combat as an entire squad of hunters.
            No, most neonates and ancillae are not that lethal - or at least they are not going to be as lethal as a SWAT Team or SEAL Team. For a single vampire to be that tought, they would have to be real combat monster - in a way most Tremere, Ventrue, Toreador and even Malkavian and Nosferatu are not. Brujah and Gangrel might be, but even then it is not a given. A vampire can take more damage than a human, and are usually stronger, but they do not all come to the table with maxed-out combat disciplines.

            Beyond that, as I have said elsewhere, if you are fighting fair you are doing it wrong.

            It would be insane for any hunter to try and take out vampires at night. The sane thing do is to attack and destroy vampire during the day - when most vampires are as dangerous as a dead fish.

            The assault on the Vienna chantry probably started on a clear and bright summer morning. Because anything else would have been deeply stupid.

            Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
            The other reason is that thanks to vampire mind control, either through Dominate, Presence,
            How many vampires possess these powers in a way letting them cripple police and military forces?

            Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
            Mortals were never the BBEG of Masquerade. That role has always belonged to the Antedeluvians.
            That is debatable.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

              No, most neonates and ancillae are not that lethal - or at least they are not going to be as lethal as a SWAT Team or SEAL Team. For a single vampire to be that tought, they would have to be real combat monster - in a way most Tremere, Ventrue, Toreador and even Malkavian and Nosferatu are not. Brujah and Gangrel might be, but even then it is not a given. A vampire can take more damage than a human, and are usually stronger, but they do not all come to the table with maxed-out combat disciplines.

              --------------------------

              How many vampires possess these powers in a way letting them cripple police and military forces?



              A level 1 Potence ability in V5 let's you inflict Aggravated damage to mortals with unarmed attacks, and can ignore body armor equal to your dots in it. That means a neonate is already striking people with enough force to break bones and cause internal hemorrhaging, as well as bypassing reinforced clothing.

              A level 1 Celerity ability gives you the speed necessary to dodge bullets. In real life, such movements are the work of fiction, since even moving at 10x the world record for human speed, Myth Busters proved it was impossible to catch an arrow in mid flight.

              And to reiterate, those are only 1st level abilities that you get straight out of the box. We're not counting for the 2nd and 3rd tier abilities that a properly trained Fledgling might have once they're released from their sire's mentorship.

              ---------------------------

              In terms of the Blood Bond? Every vampire on the planet.

              As for the others? 5 clans for Dominate, and 4 clans for Presence.

              You don't need to take control of the entire army, or police precinct. You just need to control a select group of personnel who can disrupt their ability to perform efficiently. That can be anyone from the officers who issue the commands, to the messengers in charge of distributing those commands and reporting back intel.

              It was my understanding that when it came to the Second Inquisition, only the people at the top had any idea what they were actually dealing with. The game claims that the Masquerade was broken, but in the grand scheme of things, that's not actually the case. Vampires have been operating society from behind the scenes for hundreds of years. Just because a few government big-wigs found out about their existence, doesn't instantly dissolve centuries of meticulous preparation over night. They still have their Blood Bonds, they still have their Ghouls, they still have their brainwashed Herds, and they still have the no small amount of greedy and foolish mortals who are willing to sell out their own kind for a chance at success that only the vampire can provide.

              Comment


              • #22
                Bluntly, I think that exaggerating Celerity.

                And even if you can dodge bullets, by the rules you probably WON'T.

                And most Neonates or Ancilla will not have Celerity.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I'm not going to argue with you about the odds of some schmuck of a vampire with a few dots in combat disciplines against a well armed, well armored, and coordinated strike force with combat training. I'm not conceding anything, just saying you are missing the point.

                  Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                  A level 1 Potence ability in V5 let's you inflict Aggravated damage...
                  And that doesn't matter. And it would not matter if the vampire had 5 dots in Fortitude, Potence, Animalism, Celerity and had a 10-inch dick because the hunters are not going to throw down with him in a bar fight or a boxing ring or anything like that. None of those powers will matter if the hunters, following a simple sense of tactics, roll in at 9 am in the morning when the vampire is in his death-like day-sleep. Yes, a vampire can wake themselves - if they have the right scores and make the right rolls. Otherwise they are as deadly in combat as an easy chair, because normally at 9 am in the morning vampires are functionally dead to the world.

                  So, the hunters - if they are not teenaged boys and fools - roll in during the day, know better than trying to go toe to toe with a vampire, and set fire to everything flammable. And that includes sleeping vampires.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                    Otherwise they are as deadly in combat as an easy chair, because normally at 9 am in the morning vampires are functionally dead to the world.
                    Their Ghouls aren't... and Ghouls can be just as deadly in close quarters combat. Because once again, punching a hole through a human rib cage is now a level 1 ability, meaning anybody with even rudimentary training in Potence can do it.

                    Once again, if killing a vampire was as simple as just attacking them during the day, then any kindred could do it easily. Just Ghoul a bunch of humans and send them out to attack a rival during the day, using the fact that they were unconscious at the time as an alibi to deny any involvement in the matter. The fact that they don't send in vitae empowered humans to wipe out their enemies probably means that regular humans aren't going to fair much better; coordinated strike force be damned.

                    Just to be clear, I'm not saying the SI couldn't destroy vampires (provided they knew where to look), I'm saying the number of vampires they successfully manage to kill in a given year would be minuscule, compared to the amount of mortals that vampires manage to kill.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                      5 - Yes, and how quickly do people turn on their governments, when whistle blowers expose the less than civil methods in which they use for combating those terrorists? Sure, bugging people's electronic devices and using "enhanced interrogation" tactics might have been deemed by the government as a necessary tactic to defend their people from hostile powers. But the people didn't share their opinion on the matter, viewing it as an invasion of privacy, or violating of one's basic rights.
                      Yes, of course, that's why Americans demanded that the NSA's unconstitutional data-gathering stop after the PRISM leaks, started using proxies and VPNs everywhere, and now the government doesn't spy on American citizens any more…it would be crazy for everyone to just shrug and carry on with their lives, without anything actually changing…

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        To answer the earlier question, here's some basic numbers that I have. These are all, of course, just according to how I run my games and may be completely different from how you run your games. I like emphasizing how dangerous hunters are and that vampires are not super-predators compared to ones who actually know what they're doing.

                        CT Phipps' World of Darkness Hunter Statistics

                        Hammer and Stake Hunters: The "hedge" hunters you find in the Hunters Hunted and your typical Van Helsings, Frog Brothers, Fright Night, and other independent operatives. The statistics for them are actually pretty damn abyssal. For the vast majority of people who become vampire hunters, they're killed before they ever actually kill a vampire themselves. A lot of Masquerade breaches end up with them trying to go after vampires with guns, wooden stakes, holy water, or garlic that end with how you'd expect them to.

                        Many times they also try to call the police or authorities only to get the Prince or Sheriff to take care of them. Globally, maybe 1 out of a 100 people who the Masquerade is broken for manages to end up destroying ONE vampire and that is usually it for them. Ironically, the most successful of these are ex-ghouls who either detoxed without being too old or are ghoul blood-hunters and can survive longer. Maybe a hundred Kindred die every year to these guys. Most will die before their third "successful" hunt, unless they're recruited to another organization.

                        Total Yearly Kills: 50 globally, mostly from the same few dozen hunters who have managed to become legit.

                        The Society of Leopold: The Society of Leopold is, in my games, about 1,000 Hunters globally done and they generally can keep their numbers secure, though they've dipped down to 100 Hunters at various times with the destruction of the Los Angeles branch during Bloodlines being one of the all time biggest disasters they've ever suffered. They're at full strength now and have had some ridiculous successes recently like their role in the destruction of the Vienna Chantry as well as part in the Fall of London as well as San Fransisco. The Children of Lazarus are full time Vampire Hunters and are about 10% of their membership with the other branches being focused on other kinds of horrors. The society actually fights Infernalist cultists (not full Nephandi), conducts exorcisms, and banishes ghosts every bit as much as killing vampires. They are THE professionals and an experienced hunter can kill up to three vampires year with some like Sullivan Dane being even better at it.

                        Total Yearly Kills: 100-300 yearly vampire kills (500 supernatural threats total) w/ Second Inquisition results being about 1000 per year for the past five years.

                        The Imbued: The Imbued reached about 1000 people in their height during 2004 during the whole apocalyptic fears of the period. They mostly ended up destroying thousands of Specters that crossed the Shroud and the low-powered Revenants that happened during that time. They were never really a threat to vampires except fo the fact the Hammer and Stake Hunters had their lifespans dramatically increased for a very short amount of time. Since that time, 90% of them have either died, retired, or gradually lost their powers with the remaining hundred or so carrying on the "good" fight. Again, vampires aren't their primary foe and they mostly killed Wraith-related enemies and the occasional Demon. Many have since been recruited into Project: Firstlight. No new Imbued have shown up since 2012.

                        Total Yearly Kills: 15-20 per year, dozens of ghosts and zombies laid to rest (formerly hundreds)

                        Special Affairs Division: The SAD isn't actually a vampire hunting organization and doesn't actually do much in the way of such. They are, however, notable for being responsible for dealing with many vampire serial killers in the United States as well as Masquerade breaches. Kindred mass murderers who cross state boundaries out of Kindred territory can and do get tracked by the group and they've disposed of many. They've also killed a few Black Spiral Dancers, possessed humans, and other figures. They've also had rings run around them at times by Princes as well as Technocrats who use them as catspaws to flush out problems. As often as not, they just burn down a place where they think a vampire is hiding and call it a day. Things have changed with the Second Inquisition as their biggest benefits now is to FIND the vampires then call in the military.

                        Total Yearly Kills: 1 to 5 vampires with the latter being when they burn down a Sabbat or Anarch Haven as "getting lucky" (30 to 50 cases "closed" in general), Hundreds of vampires found for the Second Inquisition to dispose of.

                        Second Inquisition: Project: Firstlight in my game is a massive program that has outfitted the Society of Leopold, freed numerous hunters from prison, and identified many others that have since been recruited (including many former Imbued). It is privately being financed by the Technocracy, Marcus Vitel (who is insane that way), the Order of Hermes (who HATES vampires), and the Celestial Choir.

                        Total Yearly Kills: 1K independent of the Society of Leopold for the past five years.

                        Total: There's been something like 11K vampires killed by the Second Inquisition (Society of Leopold, Government Alliance, Regular Hunters) in the past five years. Which is about 10% of the vampire population in the world and a Roman Decimatioin. Whole cities have been depopulated and a lot of vampires know someone who has vanished. Its demobilizing to an extent as they feel like they've probably gotten the majority of vampires in the world destroyed or, at the very least, have eradicated their leadership. "Mission Accomplished" and all that. Funding is drying up and a lot of trauma means that it can't keep at this pace forever but it's only a few good Masquerade Breaches before things return to full swing.
                        Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-08-2019, 02:12 AM.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                          Special Affairs Division: The SAD isn't actually a vampire hunting organization and doesn't actually do much in the way of such.
                          In my chronicles, I portray the SAD as pretty much a bigger group of the X-Files. However, they provide the bulk of recruits for a Delta Green type of conspiracy. They are combined with a much larger group of friendlies which have a de facto impact like Hellboy's BPRD (but without the superpowered people like Abe Sapien, Liz Sherman, or Johan Kraus). It's not quite the Second Inquisition as it seems to be, but provided for a much buffer group of vampire/monster hunters than was typically portrayed in earlier editions.

                          Similar groups are organized in other countries that have a bureaucratic law enforcement and fairly strong culture of not being corrupt. The Turks also have a fairly strong group, the Crescent Guard (whose name I stole from a book which I usually think is vastly overrated, The Historian by Elizabeth Kostova) due to historical dealings.

                          The single greatest reason these are not official organizations is that the vampires have too many agents in the bureaucracy that can be used to shut down attempts to making it official. So it has to be off the books and organized by cells and civil society.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                            Their Ghouls aren't... and Ghouls can be just as deadly in close quarters combat. Because once again, punching a hole through a human rib cage is now a level 1 ability, meaning anybody with even rudimentary training in Potence can do it.
                            So? That means their unarmed attacks are just a little less harmful to a mortal than a knife strike. Lethal Body is helpful, but mostly because it means you don't actually need to smuggle weapons anywhere to be dangerous. It's less useful when everyone is packing serious armaments – and we know the saying about bringing less-than-a-knife to a gunfight. As for Celerity 1: You still don't move faster than a bullet, just faster than the shooter. And the result is that you don't incur a 2-dice penalty. Anyone with two Athletics more can have the exact same "superhuman" ability to dodge gunfire as you.

                            Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                            Once again, if killing a vampire was as simple as just attacking them during the day, then any kindred could do it easily. Just Ghoul a bunch of humans and send them out to attack a rival during the day, using the fact that they were unconscious at the time as an alibi to deny any involvement in the matter. The fact that they don't send in vitae empowered humans to wipe out their enemies probably means that regular humans aren't going to fair much better; coordinated strike force be damned.
                            There are two reasons why this doesn't happen too much: 1) Vampires keep the locations of their havens reasonably secret or have them heavily guarded by their own ghouls. 2) It's something players can't get involved in too much because they're either just sending a ghoul hit squad out and receiving the after-action report in the evening or they're lying down to sleep and not waking up.
                            In the background, that is absolutely done though. Take a look at the Guide to the Camarilla: They knew for a fact that taking the Sabbat head-on wouldn't work because Camarilla vampires are all about that "unliving eternity" shtick that doesn't mix well with getting torn apart by a pack of shovelheads. Instead, daylight raids are SOP. Send ghouls after them. Call the cops on them. Burn down their havens, once identified. Fill up basements with concrete. All those were exactly what the Cam did. And some of that is what brought the SI down on them.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                              Second Inquisition: Project: Firstlight in my game is a massive program that has outfitted the Society of Leopold, freed numerous hunters from prison, and identified many others that have since been recruited (including many former Imbued). It is privately being financed by the Technocracy, Marcus Vitel (who is insane that way), the Order of Hermes (who HATES vampires), and the Celestial Choir.
                              No mention of the Euthanatos? Funny, they categorically oppose vampirism, as another blockage in the free turning of the Wheel.

                              Then again, I imagine that both prudence and focus on more mundane human matters keeps many Euthanatoi away from the blood-suckers. Even those devoted to the Good Death can only do so much, without knocking over every vampire hornet's nest.

                              They might have a hand in the Second Inquisition, if only to use them to find worthy targets OR to lead the SI to targets they can handle.

                              The issue with any thought of having Tradition mages involved with the Second Inquisition is that it's also backed by the Technocracy. Collaborations across Ascension War lines are not uncommon (just look at the Children's Crusade), and if the tentative peace remains there could be non-hostile interactions. If nothing else, Tradition and Technocracy mages may simply agree to stay out of each others' way.

                              But I don't imagine the Technocracy is at all happy about the Society of Leopold being involved (since every "normal" Sleeper agent who works with them is a spread of Superstitionist belief). Hell, if the SI gets its funding cut, it will probably be as a result of the Union pulling strings, in the interest of not letting Sleeper agencies look too deeply into the wider world of mysticism. If high ranking CIA operatives start handing credible reports about magic to Congressional committees, the Oval Office, or the Pentagon, that goes a ways toward making "magic" legitimate, undermining the carefully crafted Consensus. All the worse if that stuff leaks to the public, which at the least would cause the Union headaches covering it all up. (It's a joke in recent years how Area 51 aliens must be untrue, since Trump would have told everyone if he was briefed on it; you think it would be different for Magic?).

                              Further, no amount of shared hatred for vampires can completely erase centuries of rivalry or decades of Pogrom. It's probably for the best that Mages have an indirect impact on the Second Inquisition. It would only be a short switch from these intelligence agencies and religious fanatics hunting vampires, to them hunting witches.


                              Comment


                              • #30
                                All good points.

                                Here's some thoughts:

                                1. In my campaign world, it should be noted that the Union remains in a diminished state Post-Avatar Storm due to the fact that so much of its leadership was wiped out as well as the Conditioning that kept them all moving in lockstep being removed (though certain NWO operatives and Constructs still conduct it). It's managed to rebuild a good chunk of its former resources but the Technocracy is now divided on regional, convention, and other lines that it is not able to project its power like it used to.

                                2. Project: Firstlight isn't a Union operation and they exert influence but not control over the various heads of the Agencies involved. Normally, this would be kept under their thumb but it wasn't created by the Technocracy but emerged naturally from various agencies efforts while the Union was preoccupied.

                                3. The Union's contributions to Project: Firstlight are primarily outfitting them with Consensus pushing (but not breaking) technology as well as providing information normal SIGNIT or HUMIT wouldn't be able to get. They are, however, responsible for breaking their previous promises with the Syndicate and NWO both exerting extensive pressure to keep the Agencies from "outing" vampires to the world. This is done by very Low-Level Conditioning of operatives (1-2 on a scale of 1-10) that still breaks a lot of their previous vows to never subvert human free will again.

                                4. The Union actually isn't aware of the presence of how many other supernaturals are lending Project: Firstlight support and would be horrified if they were to find out. The Virtual Adepts were the ones to hack Schrek.net for example rather than the Union itself.

                                5. The Union's support for Project: Firstlight is not actually as large as it could be but mostly a cabal called The Dawn Group (a creation of mine) that is basically a bunch of die-hard Ascension Warriors who have found something else to do with their time since the treaty with the Traditions is miraculously still holding. They were scared by the Ravnos Antediluvian but are a faction rather than power bloc due to Threat Null and other issues.

                                6. It takes all of the Dawn Group's arguing to basically convince the Union to let as many government agencies and operatives work without being shut down and only the amount of success they've had has kept the Union from being against Firstlight (and even then it's still being watched carefully). Vampires, it turns out, do a lot of the grunt work of covering up the supernatural that the Union is now having to fill in for and not just for themselves.

                                7. The Order of Hermes has grown in its influence and power with the fall of the Union so they're actually doing a lot of the heavy lifting in keeping the money flowing into the SI as well as the Oversight off its ranks. It's primarily interested in continuing the war on the Tremere but the destruction of the Vienna Chantry has more or less paid off for the Hermetics.

                                8. The Celestial Choir and the Knights Templar are pulling strings in Latin American countries, Southern Europe, and the Middle East as opposed to the United States. They're actually directly participating in vampire hunts unlike the Union and passing off their magic as miracles.

                                9. There's actually a good number of Silver Fang, Shadow Walker, and Glass Walker kinfolk in the Inquisition but their mission is much simpler than most: to get the Garou to be hidden from the Second Inquisition. So far, they've kept the prevailing theory that the Gangrel are the source of werewolf legends. Many experienced hunters (and the SAD) know this is bullshit but have been temporarily frozen out.

                                10. The Camarilla is steadily sewing the seeds of the SI's downfall with ghouls, corruption, Congressional funding inquiries, subverting allied agencies to the USA (particularly in Eastern Europe), buying out contractors that supply the group, and mysterious fires. It's not falling apart very fast or uniformly but whereas the SI can detect ghouls when supernatural forces are at work and overcome dominate--money still works very well. Nothing humanizes the undead more than a paid off mortgage and college funds for kids.

                                11. Pentex is surprisingly uninvolved in the Second Inquisition but a few members are aware and wondering if they should start one for werewolves. Fortunately, for the Garou, Pentex doesn't want to draw any more attention to supernatural goings ons than necessary and are even considering "helping" the SI get shut down as vampirism is a plague on the Earth that helps their efforts even if its' only indirectly.

                                12. The casualties and expenditures in the process are mounting up w/ people starting to notice. While most are keeping their mouth shut, a lot of crazy rumors are filtering through the ranks of the militaries and agencies. Assumptions are a blood-based bioweapon, a natural plague, alien invasion by mind-controlling parasites, genetically engineered soldiers, vampires as codenames for Russian sleeper operatives, and a large number of mental breakdowns. Even FEMA based camps for detention of American citizens.

                                Which is to say the Masquerade isn't breaking but the SI's unsanctioned private war is attracting SOME attention and people want to know what the hell is going on.
                                Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-08-2019, 09:56 AM.


                                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X