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It Has Been Revelead All 13 Clans Will Be On The Player's Guide By Modiphius

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  • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    The Anarchs are composed of three Clans now with the Gangrel, Brujah, and the Ministry. At this point, it no longer matters what the individual "ride or die" Anarchs think about the subject since they no longer matter. They're outnumbered by the actual interior Clans with millennia of traditions, their own heirarchies, and a shared goal of wiping the Camarilla from the face of the Earth. In effect, the Camarilla's actions have created the Sabbat 2.0.

    It goes a bit beyond that, though. The Duskborn aren't a bunch of angry leather-jacket wearing (small a) anarchs. They're an entire Clan's worth of people that have become (capitalized A) Anarchs because the Camarilla doesn't accept them. Duskborn are Anarchs by default even if they're ex-Navy Seals or conservative Republicans. Throw in the Caitiff for good measure but I'm never entirely clear about how many of those there are. All that matters is they can't join the Camarilla either.

    The Movement doesn't need to be organized top down either as the Movement is actually more like the Allies than the United States. There's powerful Anarch domains with the revived Brujah Council (Russian Federation, Cuba) that is totalitarian and militant communist. There's Marcus Vitel's Empire of Washington D.C. that exists as a pseudo-Roman micro sect. There's the Berlin commune that consists of radical Eastern European and Muslim Anarchs who want to wipe out the Camarilla in Europe. There's the Free States. There's also the Followers of Set that are 10,000 year old religious nutters and various cults.

    None of them give a shit about each other--they are united by a shared enemy and the keeping out of each other's territory that is ruled the way they see fit.

    Will it last? Probably not but the Sabbat only existed because they had two clans worth of people and a bunch of pissed off antitribu.
    Could you provide a few sources for that? Because I really don't see it that way.

    First, talking about a specific number of clans seems misleading. Having "the Brujah" in your faction is something wholly different from having "the Ventrue" or, best case, "the Tremere (pre-SI)". One is probably going to spend one third of its ressources on fighting the second third, the other might actually be roughly pulling in one direction. The only mostly unified clan among the Anarchs is the Ministry - and they're also the newest ones to join the movement, so they won't be in too many leadership positions to sweep the riff-raff along.
    Second, it's even somewhat debateable how to count clans now that the Camarilla has pulled back from their "everyone's a member" line. I would assume that the only clans whose members are majority Camarilla would be Tremere (very, very barely until Carna officially declares Anarch) and Ventrue. For almost all others, Camarilla status is something you achieve when you've been deemed worthy, rather than being embraced into the right clan. On the other hand, that also means that the Anarchs got massively diluted. There will be many nominal Anarchs who just want to be left alone or even try to suck up to the Camarilla in hopes of (re-)joining one day.
    Third, the Thin-Bloods may not be able to join the Camarilla, but a) they're not a united faction either - most of them don't even have Sire/Childe bonds -, b) Anarchs leave them out in the cold nearly as much and c) the Cam likes to dangle the potential for joining them via Diablerie on a blood hunt right in front of their nose. Also, d), fighting an enemy when even their ghouls are nearly as powerful as you are is unappealing to many when they could just subsist on their little niche and let the giants fight their wars on their own.

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    • Originally posted by Cifer View Post
      Could you provide a few sources for that? Because I really don't see it that way.

      First, talking about a specific number of clans seems misleading. Having "the Brujah" in your faction is something wholly different from having "the Ventrue" or, best case, "the Tremere (pre-SI)". One is probably going to spend one third of its ressources on fighting the second third, the other might actually be roughly pulling in one direction. The only mostly unified clan among the Anarchs is the Ministry - and they're also the newest ones to join the movement, so they won't be in too many leadership positions to sweep the riff-raff along.
      Second, it's even somewhat debateable how to count clans now that the Camarilla has pulled back from their "everyone's a member" line. I would assume that the only clans whose members are majority Camarilla would be Tremere (very, very barely until Carna officially declares Anarch) and Ventrue. For almost all others, Camarilla status is something you achieve when you've been deemed worthy, rather than being embraced into the right clan. On the other hand, that also means that the Anarchs got massively diluted. There will be many nominal Anarchs who just want to be left alone or even try to suck up to the Camarilla in hopes of (re-)joining one day.
      Third, the Thin-Bloods may not be able to join the Camarilla, but a) they're not a united faction either - most of them don't even have Sire/Childe bonds -, b) Anarchs leave them out in the cold nearly as much and c) the Cam likes to dangle the potential for joining them via Diablerie on a blood hunt right in front of their nose. Also, d), fighting an enemy when even their ghouls are nearly as powerful as you are is unappealing to many when they could just subsist on their little niche and let the giants fight their wars on their own.
      1. I don't see that as the case, especially when the Tremere are ironically much more fractured than they've ever been before in a clan. We also have information on how the various Clans respond to the Anarchs vs. Camarilla included in The Anarchs. For example, Anarch Malkavians exist but are almost nonexistent compared to other clans (which I find very offensive as a Malkavian anarch).

      2. The Camarilla cast out the Brujah and the Anarchs but they have been stripping other members of their status. I'm not sure what you mean by "Massively Diluted." All indications are the Anarchs have become massively bigger not smaller. Where did you get the idea that anyone was going to go crawling back to the Camarilla after being expelled?

      3. The Anarchs have a Thin Blooded section in the Anarchs which talks about the organization of the Duskborn and how they've become Anarchs by default.

      So to answer your question, I guess my source is "The Anarchs" for 5E.

      And the Camarilla to a lesser extent.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
        1. I don't see that as the case, especially when the Tremere are ironically much more fractured than they've ever been before in a clan. We also have information on how the various Clans respond to the Anarchs vs. Camarilla included in The Anarchs. For example, Anarch Malkavians exist but are almost nonexistent compared to other clans (which I find very offensive as a Malkavian anarch).
        Yeah, that part seems... odd, especially considering how no clan should be purely Camarilla anymore after kicking out everyone who doesn't seem either powerful or useful. I think some of the writers didn't quite get the memo.

        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
        2. The Camarilla cast out the Brujah and the Anarchs but they have been stripping other members of their status. I'm not sure what you mean by "Massively Diluted." All indications are the Anarchs have become massively bigger not smaller. Where did you get the idea that anyone was going to go crawling back to the Camarilla after being expelled?
        Diluted meaning that in previous times, "Anarch" meant "wants to be free from the Camarilla's laws and possibly bring down the Ivory Tower". Modern day "Anarchs" consist of at least four groups: Those who actually want to bring down the Camarilla, those who want to build a society away from the Camarilla, those who just live their unlives in whatever political structure they are in and those who try to join the Camarilla.
        And of course people will come crawling back. Not all of them, maybe not even most of them. But the ones who got barely kicked out, the ones who usually thrived in Elysium, who depended on the structure of the Cam? The ones with Camarilla Sires? They absolutely have a motivation to get back in, to get back to the table with the Important People.

        Take modern life: After a company downsizes, how many people who got fired try to change the system and how many just look for another job?

        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
        3. The Anarchs have a Thin Blooded section in the Anarchs which talks about the organization of the Duskborn and how they've become Anarchs by default.
        To quote the book:
        For more than twenty years the Camarilla have hunted us like animals, branding us, enslaving us, feeding from us, using the new blood as pawns in their secret wars. Now that the unbound have left the Tower for good, many Movement leaders have declared that Duskborn have nothing to fear in Anarch domans, or even that we will be sheltered from Camarilla persecution in unbound cities. Color me suspicious, but it's a start.
        [...]
        A few of us learn the truth and aspire to full membership in the Camarilla or the Anarch Movement, the way I did, and go out of their way to prove themselves to the very monsters that made us and discarded us.
        [...]
        No group of vampires ranks so poorly among the dead as the thin-blooded, creating an ever-present desire for a sliver of power that sometimes consumes the Mercurians. The Camarilla use this to great effect, promising power and belonging to those that sell out their thin-blooded friends. [...] The thin-blooded will bury friends, trample allies and gnaw holes through other Duskborn to make their existances easier
        In game-terms, connections to the Anarchs are a Thin-Blood Merit, just like those to the Camarilla:
        Anarch Comrades: You have
        befriended the members of an
        Anarch coterie who tolerate
        your presence or even affec -
        tionately treat you as their
        pet.
        They cumulatively act as a
        one-dot Anarch Mawla, as long
        as you don’t deviate from the
        party line
        .
        Doesn't exactly sound like an equal partnership, does it?

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        • Originally posted by Redwulfe View Post
          Did they confirm it was the Camarilla? The Anarch book blamed the Banu but that was also speculation on the part of the writer.
          There was a bit in... I'm not sure which book, where the Banu laughed about "oh, yeah, that sounds like something we would do, stupid snakes."

          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          The book was a mess but has been cleaned up considerably since then. The new version has a lot more info and is much easier to read.

          Wait, so… did they just change the PDF and I should skip the hard copy (like what happened with Scion) or can I buy the hard copy and get a good book?
          Last edited by Gnomish American; 07-23-2019, 03:36 PM.


          Call Me Ray.

          Southern Gothic - Welcome to New Calais

          Who Wants to Live Forever – Highlander in the World of Darkness

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          • Double post


            Call Me Ray.

            Southern Gothic - Welcome to New Calais

            Who Wants to Live Forever – Highlander in the World of Darkness

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            • Originally posted by Gnomish American View Post

              There was a bit in... I'm not sure which book, where the Banu laughed about "oh, yeah, that sounds like something we would do, stupid snakes."


              Wait, so… did they just change the PDF and I should skip the hard copy (like what happened with Scion) or can I buy the hard copy and get a good book?
              I think the hard copy is the new book.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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