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[WIR] Beckett's Jyhad Diary - The Big book of Metaplot

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  • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    Chapter One: Carna's Rebellion
    The opening letter talks to Beckett about finding The Book of the Grave-War that will prove to be a big Macguffin throughout the rest of the book. This book apparently details matters related to Gehenna but also possesses the unique power to break Blood Bonds as well as potentially Dominate. Doctor Moritus apparently translated the book and I've always been fond of him because he was the Son of Ether Tremere and goofy-fun back when V:TM wasn't afraid to indulge in a bit of it. Sadly, Moritus is later indicated in the chapter to have been killed by Jacob/Esau.
    The Book of the Grave-War, along with Mortius' identity as its translator in modern english, is actually first mentioned in Diablerie: Britain, in the appendix: notes on the Jyhad, as a sample of noddist/gehennist/diablerie apologist pamphlet that might end up in the hands of anarchs and young licks dedicated to tracking down (and consuming) ancients.

    Incidentally, the opening of the appendix might imply Mortius ended up in Milwaukee as punishment for the translation - and leaking - of the text.


    The other "mystery book" of the Diablerie series, the Codex of the Damned, written by the proto-mayan methuselah Mictlantehcutli, primary source of the Ritual of the Bitter Rose, Quenching the Lambent Flame & Puissant Shield among others and somehow connected to the Codex Tro-Cortesianus, has not made a comeback, afaik.

    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    Inyanga discusses one of the most important qualities of this book, which is the introduction of the Cyclical Gehenna (actually introduced by Jacob/Esau ut I missed it among the Malkavian noise). Basically, that the Antediluvians routinely wake up, diablerize a bunch of Kindred, and go back to sleep. It's a very interesting idea with a lot of setting implications as it explains how the Antediluvians can keep coming back as we know they do in the history of the game.

    I've always liked the whole myth of Gehenna and the threat of the Antediluvians but I also think it's something that we did the storyline behind so there's not much further need for it. The Gehenna Wars, Cyclical Gehenna, and the idea of it being something the player characters can survive THIS cycle but not necessarily the next is a good build up.
    Actually, the idea of Gehenna as a cycle was mentioned in passing in 1st edition corebook and some of the earlier books and though mostly forgotten for years, it stuck with me because it figured proeminently in much of the homebrew noddism me and friends from first VtM group wrote for our chronicles (that might be said, Aristotle De Laurent, Beckett and many names given in passing in the Book of Nod notes would participate into as allies, mentors, contacts, rivals or more).

    I think it was even mentioned the cycle kickstarted every 2300-2500 years, but that might be faulty memory/imagination tricking me. I remember we separated methuselahs into 2 tiers - methuselahs (1000-2500 years) and Old Ones (2500+) in our chronicles because of that, among other things.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 07-18-2019, 11:16 PM.

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    • Chapter Eight: The Blood Matures

      We open with a fragment of Gehenna Prophecy where it speaks of the Wild Ones who will hunt us even in the strongest cities (perhaps referring to Under a Blood Red Moon) and then the Crone (probably Lilith but could be Baba Yaga) who will awaken and consume all. It also references the events of the Clanless coming to rule and the awakening of the Eldest. This probably means the Caitiff Prince of Cairo and the death of Ravnos.

      Isn't Noddism fun?
      We then get a letter from Doctor Douglas Netchurch that says a Thin Blood named Maxim Evanis has embraced progeny and thus 16th generation Kindred now exist. Maxim has the Cresent Moon mark spoken of in the Book of Nod and was born under a lunar eclipse. I'm surprised they added a 16th generation but it's an interesting twist that implies the blood doesn't remain static.

      It's one of the signs of the Last Daughter of Eve who was Jenna Cross in the Gehenna novel. Ironically, it was tattooed on her by Smiling Jack in that book. It didn't make it any less true.
      What follows is a description of how Thin Blooded biology exists. Thin Blood Syndrome apparently manifests in the 12th to the 15th. He then discusses his various theories on it that gives in-universe description of Blood Potency. Netchurch has also bread his own Dhampyr and called it Kadmon.

      Next up is the discussion of the Thickening of the Blood. Which is when Diablerie is used as a chance by Thin Bloods to remove themselves from their status. Netchurch uses some obfuscating (haha) language to cover up this but they comment on the Blood Hunt being "state sanctioned diablerie" that I always feel is an overlooked part of V:TM. Obviously, some Thin Bloods are going to find out there's an "out" for being the bottom of the food chain that other vampires aren't willing to take but they have nothing to lose regarding.

      Apparently, if I'm reading this correctly, a Prince provided Netchurch the opportunity to Embrace as many vampires as he required in order to have them diablerized by the Thin Bloods to "cure" them of their affliction. Netchurch then dominated them into accepting their destruction due to vitae addiction. It's one of Netchurch's things that he only does his medical experiments with "consent" but Dominates them into doing it then forgets he's done it. Like I said, Netchurch is an awesome Malkavian.

      We then discuss a Thin Blood named Matilda starts to develop all of the flaws of being a Gangrel. This is something I like because it allows Thin Bloods to potentially have some of the quirks of vampirism while the appeal of being outside of a Clan. We see it with some of the "crazy" Malkavian descended Thin Bloods and Slug from Bloodlines 2 who is a Thin Blood but still has the Clan Flaw.

      Beckett proceeds to meet with Acacia, who is a very Malkavian Thin Blood blessed with the power of Prophecy. She shows how plenty of Thin Bloods don't even know what a Malkavian is but in her case she knows the name of an ancient member of their Clan. Beckett tries to figure out what is going on with her but is eventually directed to Guinevere of the Cross.

      We then cut to one of my ALL TIME FAVORITE supplements being referenced. Yes, I mean the Outcast Survival Guide which I assume is a reference to Outcasts: A Player's Guide to Pariahs. If you've never read that book, I strongly suggest you do as it made Caitiff to be incredibly appealing to play. They also made the Ronin and Hollow Ones not suck. That's impressive.

      It more or less just says, "The Camarilla will kill you, the Sabbat will torture then kill you, the Indies will kill you as well as steal your soul, and the Anarchs are okay I guess but might still kill you."

      This section also confirms something shocking. Remember a few chapters ago, I asked who the "D" was that was writing in the margins and no one knew? Probably not? Well, it turns out the D is Damsel from Bloodlines.

      I'm not sure what surprises me most--D knows Beckett or that D is interested enough in Beckett's research to make margin notes.
      There's a great moment where the survival guide says to respect the Masquerade, only for "O" to say, "Nice going with the pamphlet then, idiot."

      Jenna Cross is the childe of Smiling Jack (though I believe he only adopted her in the Gehenna novel) but seems to be the actual sire of her here. I was always fond of her as she led the Thin Blood revolution against Hardestadt in said novel when the Withering meant everyone became Thin Bloods unless they diablerized other vampires to maintain their powers. Here, she's mostly just serving as an organizer.

      Fun fact: Jenna Cross' look is based on the original shorts and tank top Lara Croft.



      In the art here, she seems to be wearing a flack jacket with nothing underneath like Sonya Blade in Mortal Kombat 9--which I think means that Jenna is probably a cosplayer. Here's a trailer for a cosplayer putting on the outfit - it's blatantly played for fanservice but just demonstrates how incredibly impractical the outfit should be. Also, probably what Bloodlines 2 should avoid if they want to appeal to female fans.

      MK9 Trailer Sonya Blade Cosplay (NSW): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtFv...&index=55&t=2s

      So, yes, I think it means that Jenna Cross canonically dresses like her favorite video game characters.
      Jenna is as hostile as a Brujah but also fiercely protective of her people, which is how a Brujah should be. As we know, Smiling Jack has left for Libertalia (which we'll see later) but she's chosen to stay behind in the Anarch Free States where she's formed a network. I think she's a character that has the same potential as Maldavis or Anita Wainwright but you need players who don't want to lead the revolution themselves.

      Beckett wants to interview the dhampir mother but this pisses Jenna off because she assumes Beckett is a kidnapper like, say, Doctor Netchurch.

      This ends the interview.

      Adventure Hooks

      This section doesn't actually deal that much with adventures but instead presents revised rules for Caitiff, dhampyrs, Thin Bloods, and the new 16th generation. I have some toughts about the Duskborn and while I generally approve of the depiction of them in V5, I think that Thin Blood Alchemy is inferior to the rules presented here as an alternative. 1 Dot in Disciplines may not be much but you can get a lot of mileage out of Celerity, Potence, and Fortitude of 1 to go with other powers. I also like the idea (not presented here) you can have vampires immune to Sunlight as a potential 7pt merit and should be a perk of being 16th generation.

      Why? Because I love the idea of 16th generation vampires hunting regular vampires during the day.

      The only "adventure" here is the discussion of Doctor Netchurch, the Bahari, and others out for the Last Daughter of Eve.

      Thoughts

      As much as I hate the Kuei-Jin, I love Thin Bloods. It's kind of a thing at my table because I have plenty of players who love the Kuei-Jin (or at least fighting against them) while wondering what the hell I see in the Thin Bloods. They feel like the Caitiff have been shafted by the existence of the Thin Bloods and don't get what they add to the game.

      I love the Thin Bloods because, at least the way I play them, they are an opportunity to justify in-game actual Friendly Neighborhood vampires. They're "living" vampires as demonstrated by Doctor Netchurch's data and capable of living with their families without killing them. They can live off animal blood and the Curse of Caine is only mildly affecting them. It's not a GOOD idea but they are the few vampires who can reasonably be justified in having a Humanity 8, 9, or 10.

      What this means is that Thin Bloods are characters that can actually be used to have other vampires protect as a light in their world. We saw this in Bloodlines with Lily, E, and the others being the only vampires in the world that are still fundamentally human. Your characters might be Damned but these have only vaguely sauntered downwards (Good Omens reference).

      There's also the fact that while Thin Bloods are weak, that doesn't mean they can't actually be kind of terrifying. They can be awake during the day, able to pass Second Inquisition tests with flying colors, and if you do what V5 does--possibly even just ignore sunlight. That can make them terrifyingly effective vampire hunters.

      I also have made use of Doctor Netchurch's suggestion in this book that Thin Bloods are a great cure for the Methuselah's Thirst among Ancient Vampires. One of my earliest V5 plots was that Annabelle was kidnapping Thin Bloods and locking them up in her mansion because of a superstition she'd heard that feeding on vampire blood could forestall the Beckoning. Thin Bloods, not being able to Blood Bond people, made them perfect targets for kidnapping to be Elder Vampire "herds." In the end, some of the Thin Bloods refused "rescuing' because being pampered pets of Elders was as close to safety as they were going to get.

      I also like how some of them are cooperating with the Second Inquisition in V5 because, well, fuck most vampires.
      Last edited by CTPhipps; 04-19-2020, 03:11 PM.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • Chapter Eight: The Blood Matures notes

        1. Doctor Netchurch's existence, along with, Anatole's justifies the existence of the Malkavian clan. Well, those two, Jeanette/Therese and the Malkavian Fledgling from Bloodlines. Basically, Doctor Netchurch is the soulless voice of science without empathy and makes for some fascinating reading whenever he discusses the subject of Thin Bloods. He's a monster but so precise and erudite about it that you forget just what horrible things he's doing to his prisoners.

        2. I think the Last Daughter of Eve plot has lost some of its importance with the fact Gehenna is probably happening right this very second. However, my opinion is that it probably refers to the Thin Bloods as a whole rather than any individual prophecy child. I'm also inclined to think it's a reference to Alistair Crowley's novel Moonchild which I believe may have helped contribute to the existence of Mage: The Ascension.

        3. Diablerie is handled differently at every game I attend with some games treating it as a monstrous unforgivable sin while others have it as a perk of the game (usually Sabbat games). My view is that diablerie is an unforgivable sin but every other Elder has probably done it at some point. Kindred society says a bunch of smack about how its absolute evil but the simple fact is that you either win or die in the Jyhad and it's too powerful a beast NOT to do it once or twice. You just pretend you never did it and eventually people pretend you didn't.

        4. 16th generation vampires exist in my games and automatically don't take damage from Sunlight. That's what makes them terrifying to other vampires. Other vampires can take a Thin Blood Loresheet that allows them benefits like immunity to sunlight but 16th generation are automatically immune.

        5. I'm kind of iffy about the idea that Thin Bloods are automatically seers as I feel that encroaches on the Malkavian territory. I feel like Seer 4pt merit should belong to the Malkavians rather than the Thin Bloods. They have enough of their own thing going on.

        6. I like the idea of Thin Bloods with the Clan Weaknesses of their parent clans because that adds a bit more flavor even if you are otherwise benefiting from the status (or suffering from it). Not only are you suffering madness or Nosferatu ugliness but you also don't have the support of your clan.

        7. The Outcast Survival Guide is really really good but a lot of what they did to make Caitiff cool eventually became part of the Thin Blood's thing. I'm not sure the Caitiff still have much of a thing as they aren't even organizing like they were in 2nd Edition with the Panders and other groups rising from the ashes. I feel like they're in for a long overdue overhaul.

        7. I like Jenna Cross a great deal but am not sure where the PCs fit into her rebellion. I think her network of Thin Bloods should be a Loresheet in 5E available only to Duskborn. You can also explain its because of her that Thin Blood Alchemy is spreading across the land. But at the end of the day I wouldn't be surprised if she's just one single gang leader in the Free states. I actually have her take over San Diego and make it the Thin Blood Capital after overthrowing Tara.

        She's the first Thin Blood "Prince"/Baron/Queen.

        8. Random aside but I'd love to see Lily and E make a return. In the Anarch guidebook, E and Lily have broken up with the former having apparently impregnated a human woman that he's quite proud of.
        Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-20-2019, 12:15 PM.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • Netchurch is a “good” character, insofar as “good” mean interesting and useful. He is something of a Camarilla Dr. Mengele, forever performing horrific experiments on victims and either forgetting or justifying the worst aspects of his behavior.

          The nature of prophecy is that it is vague, until it has been fulfilled. And maybe not even then. I included a prophecy, and mention of the Last Daughter of Eve, in my own book Hunger from Beyond.

          Reading all of Netchurch’s writing in a bit dry but generally worth it (When I went back t college for my master’s I read a lot of academic papers – many are more obtuse than Netchurch). This chapter is the closest BJD comes to being a traditional game supplement in presenting rules mechanics. The BJD hits all kinds of possibilities. This includes locations (Chicago to Cairo) but game styles. The Banu Haqim material is a bit of Mission Impossible, or the Borne movie, with vampire. This chapter, on the thin blood, is about a game of weak vampires attempting to survive in world that wants to eat them.

          O, or Okulos, calling out the Masquerade breaking aspects of the flier is interesting because the BJD itself, and so many of the artifacts and books Beckett discusses in the book, violate the Masquerade left, right and center. The Second Inquisition will probably eventually amass a large library of such literature.

          The character of Cross is fine – and the circumstances of her birth are interesting (1) – but I dislike the art depicting the character.

          Beckett is generally better mannered here than elsewhere, but still rubs almost everyone the wrong way. I wonder why Okulos and Lucita bother with being his friends.

          And the idea of the thin blood using their weaknesses, as vampires would think of them, to be terribly dangerous to other vampires is great. Vampires should fear the Day Walkers, plural. For a while now I had the idea vampires that can handle at least some exposure to sunlight, some Salubri and the thin bloods, might have infiltrated the SI.
          1. I have a theory that the creature known as Dis Pater by the Giovanni is actually the Shadow (a wraith aspect) of clan founder Cappadocius. This is based on how long Cappadocius was dead, and apparently a wraith, before returning as a vampire. I cannot help but wonder if some of the thing blood who were deal for a long time before becoming vampires have also acquired Shadows.
          Last edited by Grumpy RPG Reviews; 07-20-2019, 04:07 PM. Reason: Cross made me do it.

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          • Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
            I imagine that with Methuselahs, there's only two ways they go: 1) the lose patience with everything and go full tilt on the "my way or the highway" Grandiosity, or 2) they learn to be VERY patient, because everyone is like a child to them. That Tegyrius is not an asshole is testament to him being the latter. Serving as one of the leaders of a close-knit Clan of vampires for thousands of years - AFTER being a Mage (and presumably one of great enlightenment) - gave him a better perspective on things.
            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
            Tergyrius is a fricking saint given he didn't smash Beckett like a bug or at least Dominate him into shutting up despite being Helena's age.
            Two nitpicks:
            - Tegyrius is a vizier (judge to boot), not a sorcerer. Assamite Revised even has his stats for you to look.
            - He was a cavalry officer in the armies of Alexander as a mortal, so he's closer to Eletria and Critias in age. Helena is older than him by close to a whole millenium.


            Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
            [*]I have a theory that the creature known as Dis Pater by the Giovanni is actually the Shadow (a wraith aspect) of clan founder Cappadocius. This is based on how long Cappadocius was dead, and apparently a wraith, before returning as a vampire. I cannot help but wonder if some of the thing blood who were deal for a long time before becoming vampires have also acquired Shadows.[/LIST]
            If memory tricks me not, according to the clanbook, the Giovanni and their ancestors were worshipping Dis Pater for a number of centuries if not harkening back into late roman times, before the Augustus was ever contacted by the Cappadocians, so i would guess that it should be something else altogether.

            .... unless something very weird was already going on behind the Antediluvian's torpor periods, that is.
            Last edited by Baaldam; 03-29-2022, 11:11 PM.

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            • It's Antdiluvians - there is always something very weird going on behind everything.

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              • Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                Netchurch is a “good” character, insofar as “good” mean interesting and useful. He is something of a Camarilla Dr. Mengele, forever performing horrific experiments on victims and either forgetting or justifying the worst aspects of his behavior.
                Whenever I speak of a good character in vampire, I tend to be of the view that one should speak as "someone who is entertaining to read about, interact with, and can provide plenty of adventure hooks." In the case of Doctor Netchurch, I think he qualifies as all three. While presenting Malkavian psychopaths as an alternative to the "kooky" kind has been done as early as CHICAGO BY NIGHT 1st edition (and somewhat undermined the clan as if "only" horrific psychopaths like Son can be Malkavians) -- I think Doctor Netchurch is an interesting variant because he thinks he's an ethical doctor and there's no actual sadism involved.

                It should also be noted that Vampire: The Masquerade does have an actual Malkavian Nazi Doctor in Harold Zettler that I often feel would be more at home in a V:TM game than a Werewolf: The Apocalypse game. I have only used Nazis a few times in my game but they're nice for setting on fire and leaving for the sun.

                The nature of prophecy is that it is vague, until it has been fulfilled. And maybe not even then. I included a prophecy, and mention of the Last Daughter of Eve, in my own book Hunger from Beyond.
                The best prophecies are the vaguest and most useful for your games. I will also state for other posters here that Hunger from Beyond is a really good Storyteller's Vault book and people should check it out.

                Reading all of Netchurch’s writing in a bit dry but generally worth it (When I went back t college for my master’s I read a lot of academic papers – many are more obtuse than Netchurch).
                This chapter is the closest BJD comes to being a traditional game supplement in presenting rules mechanics. The BJD hits all kinds of possibilities. This includes locations (Chicago to Cairo) but game styles. The Banu Haqim material is a bit of Mission Impossible, or the Borne movie, with vampire. This chapter, on the thin blood, is about a game of weak vampires attempting to survive in world that wants to eat them.
                I worked in academia for eight years and Doctor Netchurch is one of the breezier easier reads. The fact you can understand his points without falling asleep automatically puts him in the top 10%. I admit, I wonder what sort of adventures you might have at his "hospital" and am imagining a bunch of Thin Blood "patients" that think hes' going to cure them or have decided to stick around with him just because life outside of his care is actually more uncertain than being subject to his deranged experiments.

                O, or Okulos, calling out the Masquerade breaking aspects of the flier is interesting because the BJD itself, and so many of the artifacts and books Beckett discusses in the book, violate the Masquerade left, right and center. The Second Inquisition will probably eventually amass a large library of such literature.
                In fact, we had a cute little moment where in LA BY NIGHT one of Project: Firstlight's agents picked up a huge The Stand-sized book (the unabridged version) and dumped it on the table, saying it was the Book of Nod. The irony being I'm pretty sure that they were inclined to view it as utterly unimportant fiction.

                The character of Cross is fine – and the circumstances of her birth are interesting (1) – but I dislike the art depicting the character.
                I actually wasn't making a joke about the idea of Jenna Cross being a cosplaying fangirl because that does add to "humanize" the NPC beyond being a rebellious rabble-rousing Thin Blood leader. The little tidbits about characters are where they shine. Making her a sexy buxom heroine isn't necessarily a bad thing but isn't the most inspiring art either and you have to wonder why she's wearing that outfit.

                There's also this piece of art for her that looks nothing like her.



                Beckett is generally better mannered here than elsewhere, but still rubs almost everyone the wrong way. I wonder why Okulos and Lucita bother with being his friends.
                I think the best answer to that is that Okulos and Lucita are both, themselves, enormous assholes. Lucita has many endearing qualities but being a charmer is not one of them, being more like Golgo 13 with shadow powers. Cold, hard, and brutal w/ almost no desire to be charming or pleasant to anyone but a tiny few. As for Beckett, he was probably doomed from the start since almost no Thin Blood who has survived to meet many Cainites will have good experiences with them or claims of generosity.

                And the idea of the thin blood using their weaknesses, as vampires would think of them, to be terribly dangerous to other vampires is great. Vampires should fear the Day Walkers, plural. For a while now I had the idea vampires that can handle at least some exposure to sunlight, some Salubri and the thin bloods, might have infiltrated the SI.
                My interpretation of the Second Inquisition is that it probably has been thoroughly infiltrated but that the agents inside it are going to be either above the normal masses (i.e. above suspicion) or low level. Then again, I've stated that Marcus Vitel is feeding it information constantly in my games because he wants to eliminate huge swaths of Kidred so he can rule what's left over.

                We also have confirmation that Thin Bloods are working with the SI (some of which are created by them) with Flyboy in Chicago by Night.

                I have a theory that the creature known as Dis Pater by the Giovanni is actually the Shadow (a wraith aspect) of clan founder Cappadocius. This is based on how long Cappadocius was dead, and apparently a wraith, before returning as a vampire. I cannot help but wonder if some of the thing blood who were deal for a long time before becoming vampires have also acquired Shadows.
                In my games, though I've never used it, I've said the Western Far Shores of Wraith are overseen by a godlike Wraith calling itself Death and sometimes identifying itself as God.

                This being Cappadocius' Specter.
                Last edited by CTPhipps; 08-09-2019, 05:42 AM.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                  It's Antdiluvians - there is always something very weird going on behind everything.

                  True, true - it's one of the reasons in my games people aren't even sure how many there are, as clans persisting after their founders, some ancients changing identities and spawning multiples clans through the ages, Caittifs evolving into bloodlines & clans (or lost clans devolving into bloodlines) and more are all things investigative kindred may come across evidence of.

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                  • Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                    The Book of the Grave-War, along with Mortius' identity as its translator in modern english, is actually first mentioned in Diablerie: Britain, in the appendix: notes on the Jyhad, as a sample of noddist/gehennist/diablerie apologist pamphlet that might end up in the hands of anarchs and young licks dedicated to tracking down (and consuming) ancients.
                    I admit to have read Diablerie: Britain but strangely the parts that stuck out to me were Tiamat-related than everything else.

                    Incidentally, the opening of the appendix might imply Mortius ended up in Milwaukee as punishment for the translation - and leaking - of the text.
                    I always liked Doctor Mortius as he is a Son of Ether Tremere. Like the "Count Chocula" Ventrue of Washington D.C. and Bela in Los Angeles by Night, I don't need all of my vampires to be serious.

                    Oh and shame on Jason Carl for saying Bela met the Final Death in LA by Night! Boo! (I kid, I kid)

                    The other "mystery book" of the Diablerie series, the Codex of the Damned, written by the proto-mayan methuselah Mictlantehcutli, primary source of the Ritual of the Bitter Rose, Quenching the Lambent Flame & Puissant Shield among others and somehow connected to the Codex Tro-Cortesianus, has not made a comeback, afaik.
                    I've always been fond of the Wanderer and often wonder if it wouldn't be better to have him canonically have survived the diablerists of that book and gone on to become a figure in the region, perhaps with a bunch of Gangrel Sabbat dedicated to him in w/ the theme of Native Mexican Nationalism.

                    One of my adventures as a Storyteller was the attempt to recover the Codex of the Damned (rather than diablerie) by a PC because the Quenching the Lambent Flame ritual was something that could make him unable to need nearly as much blood and able to live off of small amounts of human blood. It was a motivation so much against the usual power-gaming in the setting that I was really entertained by it.

                    It's part of why I think Thin Bloods are actually really well-suited to survival in the Modern Era. They can live off of blood that other vampires can't. One at a funeral parlor can live off of old blood that would make other vampires sick or animal blood at a ranch and fly completely under the radar.

                    It's why, in my games, I've stated the Camarilla and Anarchs have no idea just HOW MANY Thin Bloods there really are (there are a lot more than they think).

                    Actually, the idea of Gehenna as a cycle was mentioned in passing in 1st edition corebook and some of the earlier books and though mostly forgotten for years, it stuck with me because it figured proeminently in much of the homebrew noddism me and friends from first VtM group wrote for our chronicles (that might be said, Aristotle De Laurent, Beckett and many names given in passing in the Book of Nod notes would participate into as allies, mentors, contacts, rivals or more).

                    I think it was even mentioned the cycle kickstarted every 2300-2500 years, but that might be faulty memory/imagination tricking me. I remember we separated methuselahs into 2 tiers - methuselahs (1000-2500 years) and Old Ones (2500+) in our chronicles because of that, among other things.
                    Cool.


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                    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                      I think her network of Thin Bloods should be a Loresheet in 5E available only to Duskborn.
                      Now this is the kind of homebrew I'd love to see.

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                      • Originally posted by Draconis View Post

                        Now this is the kind of homebrew I'd love to see.
                        I love the Loresheets we're getting for all these canon NPCs.

                        I may not think them great for replacing Merits and Flaws but they have some wonderful twists and turns.

                        Part of why I can't wait for The Chicago Folio.

                        Jenna Cross Loresheet

                        * You know generally all the Thin Bloods and their hangouts in an area. You have a loose non-hostile relationship that means you can contact them to make deals or exchange information without freaking each other out. You will be informed when new Thin Bloods enter your area by contacts.
                        ** You are an expert on Thin Blooded society, codes, and networks. You get a bonus trio of dice relate to anything regarding their lore or interactions.
                        *** You have access to a steady supply of Kindred blood for duplicating Thin Blood alchemy for vampire abilities. At the start of every session you can have up to 5 dice in one discipline or 3 dice in 3 different Disciplines worth.
                        **** You can get help directly from Jenna Cross and all of her resources once per Chronicle. This includes advice, military support, extra blood, or her own knowledge of situations. She will intervene as best she can to help.
                        **** You can raise an army of Thin Bloods that will assist you as a military force against any Kindred that you claim is oppressing otherd and a danger to them. It is effectively a torch-wielding mob.
                        Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-20-2019, 06:15 PM.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          I admit to have read Diablerie: Britain but strangely the parts that stuck out to me were Tiamat-related than everything else.
                          You and 90% of the readership? Appendices all too easily get forgotten, specially in adventures.

                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                          I always liked Doctor Mortius as he is a Son of Ether Tremere. Like the "Count Chocula" Ventrue of Washington D.C. and Bela in Los Angeles by Night, I don't need all of my vampires to be serious.

                          Oh and shame on Jason Carl for saying Bela met the Final Death in LA by Night! Boo! (I kid, I kid)
                          Yes, having the occasional goofy/weirdo vampire, be it neonate, ancilla, elder or methuselah, can be good for the bit of unwinding or some welcome contrast at times. Mortius was awesome, Bela did serve for the occasional laugh, the Ventrue faking Dracula wannabe (because turning into a near masquerade breach would make him safe of Vitel, somehow) in D.C., not so much.

                          Never STed LA by Night, but if i ever do, Bela is as undead as ever, just even better at Obfuscate and current (vampire movie) fashions.

                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                          I've always been fond of the Wanderer and often wonder if it wouldn't be better to have him canonically have survived the diablerists of that book and gone on to become a figure in the region, perhaps with a bunch of Gangrel Sabbat dedicated to him in w/ the theme of Native Mexican Nationalism.
                          If memory tricks me not, the region Tzental was supposedly located into by the book is relatively close to Chiapas and i very much connected a mysterious local figure to Anton, the ghoul Pietr the diablerist abandoned to the Wanderer's servants (and consequently his return and adaptation to contemporary Mexico & Guatemala).

                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                          One of my adventures as a Storyteller was the attempt to recover the Codex of the Damned (rather than diablerie) by a PC because the Quenching the Lambent Flame ritual was something that could make him unable to need nearly as much blood and able to live off of small amounts of human blood. It was a motivation so much against the usual power-gaming in the setting that I was really entertained by it.
                          Well, in a chronicle i played lots of years ago the PCs were part of a secret society of diablerists/hunters and at some point we acquired Quenching the Lambent Flame, that we used as a tool to police & restrain some particularly abusive kindred.
                          Last edited by Baaldam; 07-20-2019, 07:58 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                            As much as I hate the Kuei-Jin, I love Thin Bloods. It's kind of a thing at my table because I have plenty of players who love the Kuei-Jin (or at least fighting against them) while wondering what the hell I see in the Thin Bloods. They feel like the Caitiff have been shafted by the existence of the Thin Bloods and don't get what they add to the game.
                            The Thin-Bloods are a later iteration on the same basic concepts as the Caitiffs. I agree with your players halfway, but I don't think there needs to be room for both. You can use one or the other.

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                            • Originally posted by Reasor View Post

                              The Thin-Bloods are a later iteration on the same basic concepts as the Caitiffs. I agree with your players halfway, but I don't think there needs to be room for both. You can use one or the other.
                              I think I'm going to institute some house rules about Caitiff in my games:

                              * Caitiff must be 12th or 13th generation unless they raise their generation through diablerie.
                              * Caitiff are "Thin Bloods" but are more traditional vampires.
                              * Thin Bloods who diablerize into a Clan and don't take on the characteristics of a Clan (which is most cases) are Caitiff.
                              * Caitiff can also be created by having multiple types of Kindred blood used to Embrace you. This is usually the Sabbat's doing and the origins of the Panders.
                              * Caitiff is also used to refer to vampires who have been formally cast out of their Clan but this is not usually done in the Modern Nights.
                              * Your clan can be magically stripped from you but requires your sire to participate in the ritual or their blood. This ritual is known only to the Tremere and Tzimisce.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                              • I am looking forwards to the next chapter - it features Lucita and is one of the best in the book for my money.

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