Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[V20] Best Obtenebration and Dominate lvl 6-7 powers, and questions about Obt 3

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • [V20] Best Obtenebration and Dominate lvl 6-7 powers, and questions about Obt 3

    Hello everyone !
    I'm re-doing the sheet of my character, a lasombra who is gen 6 and with quite a bit of xp (170), and I saw that there are quite a bit of advanced powers for each level of dominate and obten, but I'm not sure which ones to take...
    Which ones are your favorites ?
    I was thinking of either shadow step (TP to another shadow, but it has to be quite near so I'm not sure if it's worth it) or Aegis of shadow (get a cool armor that soaks agg) for Obtenebration 6, but other than that, I'm not really sure.
    With the xp cost, I'm probably going to be able to afford only one of the two discipline at 6-7, but still, I'd like to know what are my options. All books allowed, and even homebrew if it's balanced well enough and makes sens (well, as much as a lvl 6-7 power can be balanced/make sense).


    My other question is about the Arms of the Abyss (Obtenebration 3) power : I'm not sure exactly how they work. I've asked this question elsewhere, but I'd like to have other opinions on this. The way I've been told (and that makes sense to me), is, if we imagine a 1v1 between the pc with obten and a generic npc :

    - First turn, I invoke the tentacles, and then the guy moves and does stuff (like attacking me), but the tentacles can't act yet.

    - Second turn, the tentacles may now act, on my turn
    - Only one can grapple (though the other might just bash his face instead), and they need to do a dex roll for that, which is equal to my Obt+Celerity
    - The one grappling does damage the same turn it grapples
    - When comes the turn of the victim, he can either try to escape, or do strength damage to the tentacle to try to destroy it. If he succeeds, he can't take any other action this turn (except if he uses celerity, or split his dice pool or whatever), though he can still move
    - If he's still in range of another tentacle, it can, on my turn, try to grapple him again, continuing the cycle
    - Of course, all the while, I can take other actions to kill him while he's grappled, or for more madness, spam even more tentacles.

    Am I right on that ?


    Anyway, thanks a lot !

  • #2
    Aside from Shadow Step, I've always personally found the first five dots of Obtenebration to be the best. Nightshades for trickery, Shadow Form for the obvious utility value, Shadow Play is just all around a great first dot ability in my opinion, etc. Some extra Potence wouldn't hurt things either if you need to muscle a situation without going full blown supernatural. Maybe trying for a combination Discipline? Like the ability to whisper a Dominate command into a person's shadow to activate it later or, since you have both Dominate and Obtenebration at/past five, get the ability to possess people as a shadow. I can't recall if it's really that much better than regular possession, but I recall it allowed a more smooth possession of people. Basically body hop like a supervillain from enemy to enemy.

    Dominate, by RAW, is one of those Disciplines that many argue hits its zenith at pretty much 3 or 5, depending on what you're looking for. Mass Manipulation would be a good one, but that's a 7th dot power. Maybe, since you're Lasombra, go for Implanted Opinion (Lore of the Clans, pg. 123 I believe) to start really changing peoples' minds about things. Could make you more dangerous in the social game. Roll Charisma + Leadership against your intended target's current willpower and start remaking them in your image. Remember that this won't change their feelings about the matter, but they'll think this way and believe it's how they actually think about it.

    When all else fails, though, there's nothing ever wrong with just boosting your basic stats. It makes your unlife much, much easier and fulfilling.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for the suggestions !
      I looked up the combination disciplines, but I didn’t find anything really inspiring. What is the name of the one to dominate through a shadow ? I couldn’t find it. The eminence of shade sounds cool, but is super expensive (35 xp!) for something that doesn’t add much to the regular possession... implantee opinion sounds pretty cool too, but that’s good for long term plans and slowly manipulating important npcs, and we know how a game generally goes... still, quite a strong contender.
      I agree that boostinf stats is always a very good choice. I mean, at gen 6, i can go up to 7 : having manipulation and occult both at 7, with a specialty, would make for great, great rolls for the other powers (between 5 and 6 tentacles on average ? Yes please !) . But still, i struggled with diableries and all sorts of crazy stuff to get there, so I kinda want to have some fancy powers to show for it ! I know, I know, that’s not the best idea, but still, what’s the point of being powerful if you don’t look cool ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Yorkblack View Post
        Thank you for the suggestions !
        I looked up the combination disciplines, but I didn’t find anything really inspiring. What is the name of the one to dominate through a shadow ? I couldn’t find it. The eminence of shade sounds cool, but is super expensive (35 xp!) for something that doesn’t add much to the regular possession... implantee opinion sounds pretty cool too, but that’s good for long term plans and slowly manipulating important npcs, and we know how a game generally goes... still, quite a strong contender.
        I agree that boostinf stats is always a very good choice. I mean, at gen 6, i can go up to 7 : having manipulation and occult both at 7, with a specialty, would make for great, great rolls for the other powers (between 5 and 6 tentacles on average ? Yes please !) . But still, i struggled with diableries and all sorts of crazy stuff to get there, so I kinda want to have some fancy powers to show for it ! I know, I know, that’s not the best idea, but still, what’s the point of being powerful if you don’t look cool ?

        1: Echo of the Subtle Vizier is what you're looking for. It's 14 XP. It might be a Dark Ages thing, but you asked even about Home Brew stuff so here you go regardless.

        A Lasombra with this power may silently whisper commands to a target's shadow without ever making a sound. The commands remain silent until the desired duration passes, at which time, the victim finally hears the vampire's words and faces the Dominate power employed in the command.

        Spend 1 BP, roll Manipulation + Empathy vs. target's Willpower. Each success allows the vampire to suspend a Dominate power for up to one hour. This power must be immediately activated with all necessary expenditures and rolls. the target resists as appropriate. Regardless of the results, the target does not remember the brief exchange and nothing actually happens until the duration of suspension passes. You can even use The Forgetful Mind so that it retroactively erases all memories during the time the power was suspended. The vampire then issues commands with immediate uses of Dominate, knowing the servant will remember none of his actions later.
        2: Alternatively, if you've got access to other out-of-clan Disciplines, you can never, ever go wrong with ones like Auspex, Obfuscate, Presence, or Celerity. Celerity is generally broken in RAW, Obfuscate has amazing synergy with Obtenebration since Shadow Play helps with stealth, Auspex is a winner of a Discipline since knowing is half the battle, and Presence makes you cooler than ice cream bars (plus the 2nd dot is spectacular to combine with Obtenebration — makes you a horrifying thing to behold if you're in Black Metamorphosis form). Even just a couple dots here and there can be a great boon. Flexibility and variety of powers can be just as impressive, if not even more so, than simply being a master of a single Discipline. Gives you a greater ability to adapt to situations where your usual power set doesn't work.

        3: Wanna look cool? Being not dead is pretty cool. Wearing some fancy clothes and a lovely overcoat is pretty cool and doesn't bring tons of unwanted attention down on you. You're a Lasombra anyway. They like looking good.
        Last edited by The Dreamweaver; 07-13-2019, 07:54 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Personally, I am a big fan of the high level Dominate Powers, as basically all of them make your Dominate better.

          "Fealty" in LotC in particular seems like a really useful one for chronicles that span a few years or decades. Being able to ensure loyalty in another vampire is nothing to sneeze at, and can work wonders in building your own powerbase.

          Otherwise, you could look into Abyss Mysticism. My personal favorite branch of Blood Magic, you can do some crazy things and look amazing doing it. Build an Oubliette, commune with the darkness, and go nuts ^^


          Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Echo of the subtle vizier sounds awesome ! Make a political rival attack the prince without anyone knowing it's me can be very useful !

            You're probably right about learning some obfuscate, auspex, celerity or presence, especially auspex and obfuscate in my case (Presence and celerity are covered by my brujah and toreador friends, no need for a 3rd).

            Fealty sounds good on paper, but the mechanics seem a little weak : only spending a willpower point when you actively do something to break the oath, and one level of bashing for a scene if you don't work towards it... who cares about one lvl of bashing ? It's super easy to soak, and easy to heal too. The willpower point to simply break the oath (for each action, granted, but still) is also very weak, unless you have so few of them.
            Good point for the abyss mysticism ! I'll look into it !

            Comment


            • #7
              Also, you're absolutely doing it wrong if you don't at least once perform Shadow Play to make your eyes the only part of you visible and then, in your worst Bela Lugosi voice, start using Dominate on some poor mortal.

              Comment


              • #8
                How have I never thought of this ? This is brilliant. Obey the magic eyes !

                Comment


                • #9
                  Remember to go read the Revised Lasombra Clanbook. It has plenty to say about the uses of Obtenebration. It's write-up about Shadow Play was eye-opening, to say the least.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                    Remember to go read the Revised Lasombra Clanbook. It has plenty to say about the uses of Obtenebration. It's write-up about Shadow Play was eye-opening, to say the least.
                    Indeed. The mere ability to move pre-existing shadows in any way you can conceive of is a gigantic advantage. Misdirection, spooking your enemies, creating a nice hiding spot, creating silent messages on a wall or floor for people to see, clever and subtle uses can make your intended victim sound like a hallucinating madman. One idea I had was to use a shadow at a window to make your victim think there is someone inside their house, then you, the "brave and bold hero" that you are dash into their home to confront the intruder! You come out a few moments later, reassuring them that whoever it was, you must have scared them off. "Maybe you should spend the night with me instead?" You endear yourself to a person for being so brave. That mere shadow was frightening, so you're either stupidly courageous or just care about them that much. Winning someone's trust through "selfless" acts can be a terrific way to gain advantages over them.

                    How about making a shadow look like a cliché demon complete with horns and bat-wings to convince someone that your warnings about "demonic forces stirring" was true? Bonus points if you can change your voice into a deep guttural growl and hiss out some vaguely ominous warning from your shadowy hiding place. Make a shadow look like a curvaceous woman sauntering around, then you bump into the person that was looking for the woman attached to that shadow and say, "Hey, did you see my sister walk in here? I'm looking for her", then the guard starts wandering around trying to find somebody that doesn't exist and clearly looked nothing like you. How about a Pennywise shaped clown shadow to scare the kids away from your lair? Pull a Freddy Krueger and have a shadow pop up and chase someone, then you "teleport" in front of them to convince them that you can be anywhere. You don't have Shadow-Step, but you could convince someone you can do it anyway. Careful not to make yourself seem TOO powerful, of course, lest some hungry eyes might fall upon you.

                    You can be a master trickster with just the first dot of Obtenebration. Combining this with memory rewriting thanks to Dominate, you can add extra details that shadow puppets can't provide, like having actually seen the woman wandering around a restricted area, or the intruder in the mortal's home, or recalling that they actually heard the demon whisper something.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Dreamweaver View Post

                      Indeed. The mere ability to move pre-existing shadows in any way you can conceive of is a gigantic advantage. Misdirection, spooking your enemies, creating a nice hiding spot, creating silent messages on a wall or floor for people to see, clever and subtle uses can make your intended victim sound like a hallucinating madman. One idea I had was to use a shadow at a window to make your victim think there is someone inside their house, then you, the "brave and bold hero" that you are dash into their home to confront the intruder! You come out a few moments later, reassuring them that whoever it was, you must have scared them off. "Maybe you should spend the night with me instead?" You endear yourself to a person for being so brave. That mere shadow was frightening, so you're either stupidly courageous or just care about them that much. Winning someone's trust through "selfless" acts can be a terrific way to gain advantages over them.

                      How about making a shadow look like a cliché demon complete with horns and bat-wings to convince someone that your warnings about "demonic forces stirring" was true? Bonus points if you can change your voice into a deep guttural growl and hiss out some vaguely ominous warning from your shadowy hiding place. Make a shadow look like a curvaceous woman sauntering around, then you bump into the person that was looking for the woman attached to that shadow and say, "Hey, did you see my sister walk in here? I'm looking for her", then the guard starts wandering around trying to find somebody that doesn't exist and clearly looked nothing like you. How about a Pennywise shaped clown shadow to scare the kids away from your lair? Pull a Freddy Krueger and have a shadow pop up and chase someone, then you "teleport" in front of them to convince them that you can be anywhere. You don't have Shadow-Step, but you could convince someone you can do it anyway. Careful not to make yourself seem TOO powerful, of course, lest some hungry eyes might fall upon you.

                      You can be a master trickster with just the first dot of Obtenebration. Combining this with memory rewriting thanks to Dominate, you can add extra details that shadow puppets can't provide, like having actually seen the woman wandering around a restricted area, or the intruder in the mortal's home, or recalling that they actually heard the demon whisper something.
                      Indeed, and a quick examination of Shadow Play's mechanical effects inspires plenty of uses.

                      It gives bonuses to Stealth and Intimidation, for one. In fact, V20 suggests that mortals (and even vampires who have never seen it before) be forced to make a Courage roll (difficulty 8) when witnessing Shadow Play (or other Obtenebration manifestations), or receive a one die penalty to all rolls for that scene. Remember, Obtenebration is not just spooky, it's downright unnatural.

                      Also, Shadow Play can be used offensively against a target, smothering them. All targets lose a die from Stamina rolls while under this effect (including on Soak rolls), and mortals/ghouls/air-breathers can actually asphyxiate if the smothering goes on long enough.

                      To quote the Revised Clanbook:
                      Originally posted by Lasombra Revised Clanbook, p. 70
                      The Lasombra sneer at any of their clanmates who can't find something useful to do with this power.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yup, I read the revised clanbook. It's great, especially the parts on the powers, and it gives a lot of ideas for shadow play. It's like the "minor illusion" from d&d, such a small power but with uses only limited by your creativity. Sure, it won't help if I'm trying to diablerize a Methuselah, but for everyday business, it's very useful. The dot for stealth and intimidation doesn't hurt either.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X