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Vampires and Implants?

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  • Vampires and Implants?

    I just recently had an epiphany regarding the vampire's ability to reconstitute itself from damage: What happens if their body has artificial implants, such as teeth fillings, robotic prosthetics, joint replacements, est?

    Does the vampire just walk around with a permanent injury in the event that these implants are damaged, or even destroyed?

    And if so, does that mean that most vampires tend to embrace people who are in nearly perfect physical condition?

  • #2
    In Rusted Veins you could find a Brujah veteran of Iraq with implants.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
      I just recently had an epiphany regarding the vampire's ability to reconstitute itself from damage: What happens if their body has artificial implants, such as teeth fillings, robotic prosthetics, joint replacements, est?

      Does the vampire just walk around with a permanent injury in the event that these implants are damaged, or even destroyed?

      And if so, does that mean that most vampires tend to embrace people who are in nearly perfect physical condition?
      My view is that implants would be rejected by a vampire's body.

      It happens in the BLOODSUCKING FIENDS book by Christopher Moore when someone Embraced loses her breast implants.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #4
        Should their implants, installed pre-embrace, be damaged they need to be replaced. Considering most joint implants are originally either fixed onto place by either bone cement or initial implantation through friction and final fixation comes throug bone growth into the porous metal I would say replacing them should not be too problematic for a vampire.

        Basically you only need to cut into the joint remove the damaged prosthetics, or in most cases just the damaged plastic or ceramic parts, and replace them with new parts. Joint prosthetics in general are rather difficult to harm, apart from said easily (relatives speaking) replacable plastic/ceramic parts, usually the reason to replace them is that the bonestructure around the implant has given in which shouldn’t be a problem for Vampires.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
          My view is that implants would be rejected by a vampire's body.
          Define "rejected" - biological rejection would mean the vampire needs an active immune system, which is notoriously absent in corpses.

          In general: Yes, implants don't regenerate along with the vampire. Then again, they're also often made out of pretty sturdy stuff. Presumably, the bones around a titanium joint replacement would give way before the joint does. Also consider that vampires are actually pretty easy to operate on - if you need an implant replaced, find a trustworthy doctor and have them work on you, preferably either during daytime or after draining someone high on pain medication. Forget anaesthesia, forget problems with bleeding, just cut the vampire open, do the stuff that needs doing in there and have them regenerate..

          Additionally, some implants may become superfluous due to the Embrace "fixing" the vampire in general, but that depends on the individual in question.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cifer View Post
            Define "rejected" - biological rejection would mean the vampire needs an active immune system, which is notoriously absent in corpses.

            In general: Yes, implants don't regenerate along with the vampire. Then again, they're also often made out of pretty sturdy stuff. Presumably, the bones around a titanium joint replacement would give way before the joint does. Also consider that vampires are actually pretty easy to operate on - if you need an implant replaced, find a trustworthy doctor and have them work on you, preferably either during daytime or after draining someone high on pain medication. Forget anaesthesia, forget problems with bleeding, just cut the vampire open, do the stuff that needs doing in there and have them regenerate..

            Additionally, some implants may become superfluous due to the Embrace "fixing" the vampire in general, but that depends on the individual in question.
            That during the Embrace that they would be pushed out of the body along with other foreign substances.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

              That during the Embrace that they would be pushed out of the body along with other foreign substances.

              Holy shit, that sounds gruesome!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                Holy shit, that sounds gruesome!
                Yeah, it was a real "Body Horror" moment in the Bloodsucking Fiends series where they found her...."newborn" with lots of flesh and fat and expelled stuff nearby. Mind you, I like my Embraces gruesome.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                  That during the Embrace that they would be pushed out of the body along with other foreign substances.
                  If this is the case, I do not recall an official answer to the matter, then anyone Embraced with a joint replacement would be screwed. Especially someone with a knee implants as rejection of those would prevent them from walking, those with hip implants might have it easier as the hip would effectively be girdlestoned after the implants were rejected but since girdlestone works through natural healing process to create a sort of false joint it would be unlikely to do so with Vampires and their undead physique leaving the hip extremely painful and unlikely to allow walking.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Possessed View Post

                    If this is the case, I do not recall an official answer to the matter, then anyone Embraced with a joint replacement would be screwed. Especially someone with a knee implants as rejection of those would prevent them from walking, those with hip implants might have it easier as the hip would effectively be girdlestoned after the implants were rejected but since girdlestone works through natural healing process to create a sort of false joint it would be unlikely to do so with Vampires and their undead physique leaving the hip extremely painful and unlikely to allow walking.
                    It's why I state that the Embrace heals almost all infirmities and the sire usually has to give more blood to heal problems that predate the Embrace like missing limbs and so on.

                    Or, if you wonder how it would work in game.

                    *Anita Wainwright embraces Dave*

                    *Dave has a hip replacement and takes two damage expelling it from his body*

                    *Dave proceeds to frenzy and has his Hunger rise until he frenzies and drinks a couple of nearby mortals dry to finish his Embrace*

                    In other words, if you have this sort of thing, you'll need more blood.

                    And it will be awful on your Humanity waking up.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #11
                      Personally I would only allow the Blood to heal things it already can heal, that is to say it couldn’t heal an Injury that had already healed naturally like a long missing limb, but if the wound was recent enough, happened just before the embrace like you found your childe to be barely alive after an accident having lost a limb, I would allow for it. Implants in place are by default already healed naturally and so they wiuld be beyond the bloods ability to heal.

                      That being said... I just remembered something. In the old WW magazine there were semi-official rules for playing cyberpunk in vampire and I seem to recall, though I could easily be wrong it’s been ages since I read ’em through, rules for vampires and cybernetic implants and if those are not rejected then neither would normal implants. Don’t know if I have those rules available anymore though.

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                      • #12
                        Vampire the Masquerade - Cyberpunk 2020, World of Future Darkness Was the article I mentioned. And found it.

                        The rules there assume implants already in the person before the embrace remain in the body but Vampires need a Thaumaturgical ritual to implant new implants. But naturally like said the rules were written with the assumption that the implants would work, whether that has any relevance in the matter at hand is up to each reader and ST to decide at their table.

                        I do think this matter in general is likely something each ST has to rule at their table as I do not believe we will have any official answer forthcoming.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                          Personally I would only allow the Blood to heal things it already can heal, that is to say it couldn’t heal an Injury that had already healed naturally like a long missing limb, but if the wound was recent enough, happened just before the embrace like you found your childe to be barely alive after an accident having lost a limb, I would allow for it. Implants in place are by default already healed naturally and so they wiuld be beyond the bloods ability to heal.
                          This is how I tend to see it. If the wound was long enough before the Embrace that it heals into a new form, it's not a wound anymore. That's just the mortal's "natural" state. The Embrace can't really do anything about that. In game system terms, the Embrace heals lost Health Levels. Nothing more.

                          This is why vampires can start with any number of Flaws, including One Eye, Disfigured, Lame, Deformity, Deaf, Mute, and Blind. Any of these could be justified due to "pre-existing conditions" at the time of the Embrace, that become "locked in place" by the character's undeath and metaphysically Static existence.

                          As such, I would assume that the vampire's body would retain the body structure they'd have at the time of the Embrace, including whatever body cavity their implants would occupy. Objects being pushed out is a function of the vampire's body ejecting something that's getting in the way of regeneration. But an implant isn't getting in the way of anything, because the body's "natural state" had nothing there (because an implant healed into that space). An artificial hip would no more erupt from a vampire's thigh than the fillings would pop out of her teeth (barring, perhaps, whatever happens to make Fangs possible, which is another kettle of fish entirely).


                          Going further beyond even what I would consider reasonable, there's an interpretation of Vampire that says "the Embrace fixes everything about the character's body into place forever, including the presence of implants". Not just that the "natural state" the vampire returns to includes space for an implant, but that they will regenerate the implant itself if it's damaged.

                          Patently absurd, I know, and I don't find myself implementing it in any game or story any time soon. But it's interesting to think about what a vampire's body counts as being part of its "Pattern" (if we use a Mage term). When the character is metaphysically fixed in time, can that include artificial things? Should it? Let's not even try saying "implants wouldn't regenerate, because they're made of metal and plastic!", because nothing about vampire regeneration (or physiology in general) makes sense. A vampire can regrow a missing limb using nothing but a few gallons of blood, lack of Biomass be damned. Gargoyles (depending on type, edition, and Storyteller fiat) can have flesh made of stone. Nothing is out of the question, because Vampires run off Magic, not Science.

                          A while back, I toyed with the idea of a secret sect of vampires, created artificially through techno-Sorcery and controlled by mortal occult scientists. It's all very Hellsing. And they'd be kept in line because each comes equipped with a chip in their brain, that would both allow their masters to see through their eyes AND kill or inflict pain from afar to guarantee obedience. The best way I figured as to why some of said "Freaks" hadn't broken free when their chips were destroyed (either deliberately or accidentally through injury) was that they were of a Bloodline whose weakness WAS that their chips become part of their "Patterns" and regenerate along with the rest of their flesh.

                          Gonzo, yes, but an idea I think that has merit. Plus, it would open us up to seeing stranger forms of "vampire cyborgs".


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                            -snip-

                            Magic and technology becoming one? The Technocracy are shitting themselves at such a prospect.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Possessed View Post
                              Personally I would only allow the Blood to heal things it already can heal, that is to say it couldn’t heal an Injury that had already healed naturally like a long missing limb, but if the wound was recent enough, happened just before the embrace like you found your childe to be barely alive after an accident having lost a limb, I would allow for it. Implants in place are by default already healed naturally and so they wiuld be beyond the bloods ability to heal.
                              I must say I like the randomness inherent in the Embrace (or rather, its potential for drama). I think "What makes for a better plot?"/"What is the character I want to play?" should be the main questions when it comes to determining what the Embrace can or can't heal. For a minor version, my current character concept could barely walk due to old injuries and got much better when he became a ghoul - the injury doesn't matter to the vampire he is today, but it's something to be grateful to his former domitor for.

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