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So Which Antediluvian's do you think have Lost to the Beast?

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  • So Which Antediluvian's do you think have Lost to the Beast?

    Okay one thing that bothered me is often ignoring that Antediluvians should have had to struggle with their Beast, and by all logic some of them would have fallen. But which do you think have Fallen? Like do you Think Absimiliard is an Antediluvian Wight? Or is he just bumbling along on some low Humanity, way to dangerous for Soul Eating Ancients. Is he on a special Road of his own Devising, or Road of the Beasts?

    It would explain a lot if Ennoia has become a Wight ages ago, though in Theory she is just on the Path of Harmony/Road of Beasts.

    My headcanon is when they loose to the Beasts either history forgets them, I imagine some Antes became Wights in Prehistory and didn't survive, or they eventually adapt and becoming Intelligent. Like I think its heavily implied Tzimisce is either it's Beast or it Separated its soul.

    Like do you think Haquim is on the Road of Blood that he set out for his childer, possibly the old school variant mentioned in Ur-Shulgi's writeup? Or do you think he follows a different path like Humanity or Honor?

    Do you think many Antes are low or middling on their Paths or High on it? Like I think Ennoia either mastered the Road of Beasts and achieved a Similar Golcanda state or is all Beast and you can't tell because it acts very Primally.

    Its something I feel they should sometime address as unless they are talking about Saulot they ignore this struggle outright for the others.


    Also what do you think Baba Yaga's deal is, she is listed as humanity Zero, but this was Early Era Vampire so would you put her on a Road? I think she would be a good candidate for being lost to the Beast but her Beast just adapted using her genius mind.


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    Ravnos was, in my opinion, the only Antediluvian who was suffering wassail.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      Becket Jyhad Diary hints that, at some point of their life, every Antes has been lost to the beast at least once




      Beckett: You point to your forehead as if it were a curse. You
      healed me of my affliction with that power.

      Serenna: Only temporary. This eye is the eye of Saulot. His physical
      form may be gone, but he spies through each one of us who
      bears it. Had the Tremere been more thorough in their elimination
      of Saulot who is Ashur, we may have prevented Gehenna entirely.


      Beckett: Ashur. You referred to Malkav by the same name. Is he not
      said to be the founder of the Baali?

      Serenna: Ashur is a state of being, Beckett. When you succumb to
      the sins inside, by how are you known?


      Beckett: Some call it becoming the Beast. Others call it ecstasy.

      Serenna: Among the legends of the Ashirra, when the Antediluvians
      succumbed, they became Ashur. Each of them has been Ashur.
      One of
      them — at that point — formed the Baali line. That is what I hoped
      to find here. Instead I found you. You found the Bay’t Majnoon
      performing a ritual. I believe they have taken Malkav into their
      minds, as the Al-Amin have taken Saulot into theirs..

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      • #4
        That's interesting! See I think they should have had more on Vampires who succumb to the beast but survive.

        For normal Vampires you don't come back from the Beast, but maybe for the Antes they just transformed when they succumbed to the beast.


        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
          That's interesting! See I think they should have had more on Vampires who succumb to the beast but survive.

          For normal Vampires you don't come back from the Beast, but maybe for the Antes they just transformed when they succumbed to the beast.
          I think if a vampire is lost to the Beast that they're essentially out of the game.

          So they might as well be dead since they're nonsentient animals.

          Mind you, I tend to think when you have Intelligence 10 that you're not the same sort of mind as a human.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

            I think if a vampire is lost to the Beast that they're essentially out of the game.

            So they might as well be dead since they're nonsentient animals.

            Mind you, I tend to think when you have Intelligence 10 that you're not the same sort of mind as a human.
            Well the above quote seems to indicate that all the Antes have been Wights at some point, unless it was just a drastic example of Frenzying... you know Frenzy embracing ew...


            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
              Well the above quote seems to indicate that all the Antes have been Wights at some point, unless it was just a drastic example of Frenzying... you know Frenzy embracing ew...
              Yeah, that's definitely an interesting perspective in BJD.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                Well the above quote seems to indicate that all the Antes have been Wights at some point, unless it was just a drastic example of Frenzying... you know Frenzy embracing ew...
                I'd say that the quote above indicates certain vampires believe all Antediluvians have been wights at some point.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cifer View Post
                  I'd say that the quote above indicates certain vampires believe all Antediluvians have been wights at some point.

                  Yes that is a good point, convenient that NPCs that are newly met hold info that is up to date with the new books, like changing the Idea Ashur was a name and then the idea Ashur was a place now is coopted to the idea Ashur is a state of being.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #10
                    I believe all Antediluvians have been wights. Some never recovered and instead became something worse. I also came up with the "Ashur as a state of being" idea, and quite like it.


                    Matthew Dawkins
                    In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


                    Website: http://www.matthewdawkins.com
                    Patreon: http://https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
                      I believe all Antediluvians have been wights. Some never recovered and instead became something worse. I also came up with the "Ashur as a state of being" idea, and quite like it.

                      It certainly solves a lot of issues rather simply.


                      It is a time for great deeds!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post


                        It certainly solves a lot of issues rather simply.

                        I wouldn't say it solves much, thankfully. The mystery still remains over who sired the Baali, and long may that mystery remain!


                        Matthew Dawkins
                        In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


                        Website: http://www.matthewdawkins.com
                        Patreon: http://https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
                          I believe all Antediluvians have been wights. Some never recovered and instead became something worse. I also came up with the "Ashur as a state of being" idea, and quite like it.
                          Wouldn't an Antediluvian Wight be something the world would notice, however? While capable of stealth, wights aren't known for being subtle so, wouldn't an Antediluvian Wight basically devour a continent in one night?

                          Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
                          The mystery still remains over who sired the Baali, and long may that mystery remain!
                          "In the city of Golconda, Saulot realized that to know the
                          One Above, one must study the Lords Below. He listened
                          to desert insects as I did, and gave them a home in Damned
                          flesh, in pits of sacrifce. You know of the vile bloodline he
                          made, and their secret reign in Carthage. Thus he shed the
                          great evil he cultivated, and prepared for peace."

                          Cretheus seemed convinced the blame should be laid at Saulot's feet but he could certainly be wrong.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post

                            Wouldn't an Antediluvian Wight be something the world would notice, however? While capable of stealth, wights aren't known for being subtle so, wouldn't an Antediluvian Wight basically devour a continent in one night?
                            Maybe.

                            Could be in a Vampire-centric World of Darkness, that the Croatoan werewolf tribe being wiped out was dealing with Gangrel.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • #15
                              The quote could just as easily refer to being in a state of frenzy, not a wight. It is more likely infact that it refers to Frenzy both due to mechanics and lore.

                              It's hard to say who is lost to the beast and who are simply.. Evil. Tzimize and Nosferatu seem more 'evil' and 'inhuman' than a mindless predator etc.

                              I would say that Ravnos is probably lost to the beast, and Gangrel are probably either lost to the beast or simply too animalistic to remain a 'human'

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