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So Which Antediluvian's do you think have Lost to the Beast?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
    I wouldn't say it solves much, thankfully. The mystery still remains over who sired the Baali, and long may that mystery remain!
    I always felt it was a very strange choice to assume that whoever sired the Baali meant for them to become the plague on humanity that they did. The assumption by the book is that the story of Ashur and the Three Children he threw down the Well is that he meant to bestow upon them great power.

    When, in fact, the story reads very much like a Biblical curse.

    "You disgust me so much that I am going to turn you into monsters and cast you down."

    Which means that Saulot could be the sire of the Baali and has been dealing with the horror of what he accidentally wrought ever since.

    Then again, it nicely reflects God's own creation of the Curse of Caine and it backfiring.

    Or Imhotep from THE MUMMY.

    Edit:

    I can't wait to get to the Jerusalem chapter of BECKETT'S JYHAD DIARY because there's a lot of interesting bits there that I look forward to analyzing. Not just the idea that the Antediluvians move in and out of wightdom over the years but also that Malkav may or may not be the founder of the Baali.
    I'm curious what drinking their founder's blood means for the Malkavians and whether or not it's a way to explain why they might be written a bit differently in the future.

    Also, whether or not being under Jerusalem (a place with True Faith 10 depending on where you stand) was a deliberate choice by Malkav--maybe to burn the wightdowm out of him or keep himself imprisoned.

    In some of my games, Saulot was actually Malkav AFTER he achieved Golconda. That the Malkavians and Salubri were the same Clan at different points in their history.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-15-2019, 04:26 PM.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #17
      For my 2 cents Brujah and Gangrel have entered wassail. For Gangrel it doesn't really matter, she has embraced her beast but for Brujah... she is lost to her clan. They can only hope she remains in topor.

      I think a few people mentioned Malkav as Ashur. I like his story.... His death holds some mystery. When he died did he call his children to drink his blood or were they already there because they were the ones who killed him? Did they drink his blood or did they try to diablerize him.

      Didn't earlier version say the Childer of Malkav scattered his body to the four corners of the world. I thought only a piece of him was below jerusalem. BJD seems to indicate he is whole in body beneath the holy city. I wonder how his parts all got back together. Pawns, blood, regeneration?

      Lastly, I am just going to throw this out there because this post is already pretty random. Malkav's twin is his madness, o. r at least his madness in effect. Maybe its the reverse and Malkav is the madness and the twin is ORIGINAL.

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      • #18
        How many Antes do you think have split their Soul? We have Cappy, Tzimisce, and Saulot but do you think any of the Others have done this? What types of morality do you believe the others have.



        Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post


        I wouldn't say it solves much, thankfully. The mystery still remains over who sired the Baali, and long may that mystery remain!
        Oh it certainly does solve a lot of issues, as it explains Ashur isn't a specific Vampire. It leaves the good mysteries but it makes it so contradictory seeming accounts now make sense without explaining them.





        It is a time for great deeds!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
          Ravnos was, in my opinion, the only Antediluvian who was suffering wassail.

          Yes and no. He was completely in frenzy during the battle with the dharma 9 kueijins, but he was conscient enough to curse his own clan after they failed to aid him (yet many of his own childer managed to survive).

          - Saga

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
            Okay one thing that bothered me is often ignoring that Antediluvians should have had to struggle with their Beast, and by all logic some of them would have fallen. But which do you think have Fallen? Like do you Think Absimiliard is an Antediluvian Wight? Or is he just bumbling along on some low Humanity, way to dangerous for Soul Eating Ancients. Is he on a special Road of his own Devising, or Road of the Beasts?

            It would explain a lot if Ennoia has become a Wight ages ago, though in Theory she is just on the Path of Harmony/Road of Beasts.

            My headcanon is when they loose to the Beasts either history forgets them, I imagine some Antes became Wights in Prehistory and didn't survive, or they eventually adapt and becoming Intelligent. Like I think its heavily implied Tzimisce is either it's Beast or it Separated its soul.

            Like do you think Haquim is on the Road of Blood that he set out for his childer, possibly the old school variant mentioned in Ur-Shulgi's writeup? Or do you think he follows a different path like Humanity or Honor?

            Do you think many Antes are low or middling on their Paths or High on it? Like I think Ennoia either mastered the Road of Beasts and achieved a Similar Golcanda state or is all Beast and you can't tell because it acts very Primally.

            Its something I feel they should sometime address as unless they are talking about Saulot they ignore this struggle outright for the others.


            Also what do you think Baba Yaga's deal is, she is listed as humanity Zero, but this was Early Era Vampire so would you put her on a Road? I think she would be a good candidate for being lost to the Beast but her Beast just adapted using her genius mind.
            I'd go that Haqim follows an early version of the Road of Kings.

            Baba Yaga's trait of Humanity 0 back in 2nd ed was to show just how inhumane she was. I doubt she being a wassail. My theory is that she did devised a road for herself in order to not loose herself to the beast and wield her impressive blood magic powers

            - Saga

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