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[V5] What’s Up with the Sabbat?

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  • [V5] What’s Up with the Sabbat?

    Forgive me if I’ve missed something in my reading of the V5 books and the Chicago By Night draft, but has anyone figured out what exactly is going on with the Sabbat? When did they leave their North American/South American/European territories for the Middle East? Did all of them leave, or are there vozhd hiding in basements in Baltimore and Atlanta?

    What drove the Lasombra
    to request Camarilla membership
    ?

    Also, sorry if this has been covered on the forums somewhere and I missed that, too.

  • #2
    I think the state of the Sabbat (and I could be wrong is):

    State of the Sabbat

    * The False Regent is revealed and a Sabbat Civil War ensues over who their successor is (BJD)

    * The Black Hand fights with Jalan vs. the Three True Hand Seraphs (BJD)

    * The True Hand either don't lose or prevent Jalan from winning since he vanishes (The Camarilla)

    * Polonia either wins or doesn't lose the fight for Regent because the Gehenna Crusade is his baby (V5 Rulebook)

    * A good number of Sabbat abandoned their home cities and territory in order to fight in the Gehenna War (V5 Rulebook)

    * Not ALL of the Sabbat went to the Middle East (CBN 5E).

    * The Sabbat lost Mexico City due to Fionrenza (The Camarilla).

    * The Second Inquisition hit them hard (CBN 5E).

    * A bunch of Sabbat defected to help form the Church of Caine, merging with Ministry and religious Anarchs as well as Camarilla-ites (The Anarchs)

    * Half the Lasombra went to the Camarilla with a lot of in-fighting and a mini-Civil War over the defectors turning over their fellow Sabbat to the Ivory Tower (CBN5E)

    * The Tzimisce are still around and barring new information, haven't had an apocalyptic bit of weirdness happen to them (V5 Players Guide)

    * House Goratrix has been rebuilt by Tremere in Goratrix's body (BJD).

    * The Gehenna Crusaders mostly are destroyed or become possessed by ancient Kindred they diablerize, becoming monsters terrifying to the old Sabbat (CBN5E)

    So it's been a shitty decade and a half for the Sabbat but they're still going to be around in some form in addition to the mysterious diablerist 5th and 6th generation possessed Gehenna Crusaders.

    Lasombra Reasons for Leaving

    * The Lasombra Antediluvian is revealed to have survived to the Lasombra leadership (BJD)

    * The Sabbat get hit hard by the Second Inquisition (CBN5E)

    * Marcus Vitel makes an undisclosed deal with the Amis Noctis (CBN5E)

    * The Gehenna Crusade destroys most of those who participate and leaves the survivors possessed by diablerie addicted Methuselahs (CBN5E)

    * There's always been a decent number of Lasombra Ancilla who like quietly accumulating power and wealth that are irritated by the EXTREMEEEE behavior of Sabbat crusaders.

    * Only half the Lasombra leave anyway (CBN5E)
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-16-2019, 03:25 PM.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      Thanks for the quick and extremely detailed reply! I knew some of it, clearly didn’t read the Camarilla and Anarch books closely enough, and was completely unaware of a Player’s Guide being available already. I need to get my hands on that.

      This is all because my players are getting picky about when exactly the Sabbath decamped from Washington DC - right after Vitel’s return? If not, then when? - and whether there’s anyone Sabbat-ish still around in Emperor Vitel’s city. I’ve got elder Lasombra fleeing their ancillae begging Vitel for sanctuary...

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      • #4
        Its not available but the Tzimisce Clan is going to be in it and the details are so far that it's remaining "the" Sabbat clan.

        Originally posted by Epimetreus View Post
        Thanks for the quick and extremely detailed reply! I knew some of it, clearly didn’t read the Camarilla and Anarch books closely enough, and was completely unaware of a Player’s Guide being available already. I need to get my hands on that.

        This is all because my players are getting picky about when exactly the Sabbath decamped from Washington DC - right after Vitel’s return? If not, then when? - and whether there’s anyone Sabbat-ish still around in Emperor Vitel’s city. I’ve got elder Lasombra fleeing their ancillae begging Vitel for sanctuary...
        Epimetreus

        The Washington D.C. siege is actually wonderfully handled by BJD because the story is spread over several chapters.

        The Capture of Washington D.C.

        * Vykos sends multiple War Packs to Milwaukee to recover the Book of the Grave War. This weakens Washington D.C. and the East Coast's military might.

        * The Sabbat, instead of finding "normal" Camarilla resistance, find Mark Decker and his battle-hardened Anubi (Gangrel war coteries) that have decades of experience fighting on the streets against Lupines.

        * Theo Bell finds that there's an organized resistance led by Bjorn the Viking Anarch and Tabitha the Archon against the Sabbat in Washington D.C.

        * Marcus Vitel and Talley claim they will be taking the city from the Sabbat with the latter having defected to Vitel's service.

        * Marcus offers Bell all the money and resources he needs to kill as many Sabbat as he wants. Bell takes him up on his offer, reluctantly.

        * Vykos abandons the Sabbat when he breaks the possession of the Dracon, leaving the city without an Archbishop.

        * Marcus Vitel recruits an army of Anarchs from the West Coast and Baltimore, promising them riches and wealth if they help him retake Washington D.C. Quite a few Anarchs have no ideological opposition to autocracy as long as they're on the top rather than the bottom.

        * The Sabbat fight their Civil War. Among other things, the Black Hand (i.e. the Sabbat Special Forces) are completely occupied due to the Assamite Antitribu elders leaving for Alamut and the True Hand Vs. Jalan.

        * The Vitelian Anarchs take DC due to how weakened the Sabbat are. Also the fact Vitel is f***ing 2000 years old while Talley hunts Lupines in his free time.

        * The Sabbat begin the Gehenna Crusade and leave Vitel as Emperor of Washington DC's "Free State."

        * Vitel reaches out to the Amis Noctis and arranges for them to join the Camarilla, making it so they also kill a lot of Sabbat Elders on their way out.
        Last edited by CTPhipps; 07-16-2019, 03:49 PM.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
          Its not available but the Tzimisce Clan is going to be in it and the details are so far that it's remaining "the" Sabbat clan.
          Ah! Thanks.

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          • #6
            Edited up a description of what happened to DC.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CTPhipps;n1325037

              * [B
              Vykos[/B] sends multiple War Packs to Milwaukee to recover the Book of the Grave War. This weakens Washington D.C. and the East Coast's military might.

              * The Sabbat, instead of finding "normal" Camarilla resistance, find Mark Decker and his battle-hardened Anubi (Gangrel war coteries) that have decades of experience fighting on the streets against Lupines.

              * The Vitelian Anarchs take DC due to how weakened the Sabbat are. Also the fact Vitel is f***ing 2000 years old while Talley hunts Lupines in his free time.
              This summary delights me.

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              • #8
                Bearing in mind the Sabbat has always been the puppets of the Lasombra and Tzimisce Founder. The Lasombra Leadership finally just twigged to the fact. The status, and awareness, of the Tzimisce leadership remains to be seen.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                  Bearing in mind the Sabbat has always been the puppets of the Lasombra and Tzimisce Founder. The Lasombra Leadership finally just twigged to the fact. The status, and awareness, of the Tzimisce leadership remains to be seen.
                  The Lasombra Antediluvian might enjoy manipulating the Sabbat.

                  The Tzimisce Antediluvian probably considers its members the way other people consider their cells.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                    Edited up a description of what happened to DC.
                    Very nice! Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Tzimisce Founder is as alien as Cthulhu, but it can focus on individuals and interact with them at time - based on bits of business in BJD and the revised Tzimisce Clanbook. An interesting question for both Founders is why did they fake their deaths if their clans posed so little threat to them?

                      I suspect they were trying to be cool, like Saulot.

                      In anycase, I suspect there will be a number of Sabbats. The survivors of Polonia's Crusade as a Sabbat, some around Lucita (assuming she became Regent) as a Sabbat, and some real disguisting wack-jobs in a Sabbat run by the Tzimisce.

                      That said, its going to be a while before we learn anything definitive - I don't think a Sabbat book is even in the planning stages at this point.

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                      • #12
                        pretty sure Tzimisce and Baal were the only antideluvians manipulating the sabbat, and Lasombra had little to do with it,
                        and if he did, he sure did a poor job of it

                        Tzimisce had great control over those infected with the seed, which he could easily transfer through the ritae and diablerie (even to camarilla diablerists during sect wars)

                        Baal used infernalism and the fact that the sabbat (pro-infernalist or not) always depended on demons to hold their major cities (as is the case in Milan and Montreal),
                        and it goes to show that alot of the most bloody wars in America between the sabbat and camarilla and between Lasombra and Tzimisce were pushed by him (and Helena)

                        Lasombra however...if he did have influence on the sabbat, it didn't show

                        yes, the Lasombra get a calling to the sea and end up joining him, but it's only lasombra,
                        a brujah with obtenebration or mysticism wouldn't get called,
                        and even if they did, the blood courts were garding the lasombra arts secret, and preventing their spread,
                        plus the sabbat lasombra were very hell bent on murdering their antitribu,
                        and they have eliminated alot of cabals this way, alot of which were mystic practitioners

                        what did Lasombra stand to gain from this?
                        absolutely nothing


                        -

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
                          pretty sure Tzimisce and Baal were the only antideluvians manipulating the sabbat, and Lasombra had little to do with it,
                          and if he did, he sure did a poor job of it
                          Lasombra turned out to be living in the shadows of the Amis Noctis' headquarters according to Beckett's Jyhad Diary. So, I don't think that's the case.

                          Lasombra however...if he did have influence on the sabbat, it didn't show
                          How do you figure?

                          Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                          The Tzimisce Founder is as alien as Cthulhu, but it can focus on individuals and interact with them at time - based on bits of business in BJD and the revised Tzimisce Clanbook. An interesting question for both Founders is why did they fake their deaths if their clans posed so little threat to them?
                          Both Lasombra and Tzimisce seem to have transcended physical forms as a goal of their apotheosis like Malkav. Their physical bodies are outright no longer important to them.


                          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                            Lasombra turned out to be living in the shadows of the Amis Noctis' headquarters according to Beckett's Jyhad Diary. So, I don't think that's the case.



                            How do you figure?
                            then why did the amis noctis prevent the spread of abyssal arts?
                            and why were they killing all those lasombras instead of throwing them to the sea?

                            what did Lasombra do with the amis noctis that they wouldn't have done without his influence?
                            what did the lasombra do that they wouldn't have done without their antideluvian's influence?


                            -

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                              then why did the amis noctis prevent the spread of abyssal arts?
                              and why were they killing all those lasombras instead of throwing them to the sea?

                              what did Lasombra do with the amis noctis that they wouldn't have done without his influence?
                              what did the lasombra do that they wouldn't have done without their antideluvian's influence?
                              I think it's good when contemplating the Antediluvians and their Clans to assume that every single thing that exists in a Clan culture is to the ideals of their Founder. They are not making plans to launch nuclear weapons like in Transylavania Chronicles. Lasombra is probably encouraging the Darwinist, amoral, psychotic ways of the Sabbat as well as the violence against other clans.

                              Because it's a being of malevolent alien evil.

                              Maybe without it, it wouldn't be a bunch of deranged psychopaths.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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