Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[V5] What’s Up with the Sabbat?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    Lasombra is probably encouraging the Darwinist, amoral, psychotic ways of the Sabbat as well as the violence against other clans.

    Because it's a being of malevolent alien evil.

    Maybe without it, it wouldn't be a bunch of deranged psychopaths.
    the amoral psychotic ways of the sabbat was a result of clan tzimisce influence,
    the anarch revolt
    the infernalist war
    as well as the time the sabbat spent with the nahualli and the bloody wars that followed,
    each event driving them more depraved

    other than darwinism and tradition, the lasombra was more influenced by the sabbat than the sabbat was by the lasombra,
    especially when you consider how long it took for them to be part of the sabbat,
    when the Tzimisce were influencing the anarchs from the start
    Last edited by Pleiades; 07-17-2019, 06:46 AM.


    -

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

      the amoral psychotic ways of the sabbat was a result of clan tzimisce influence,
      the anarch revolt
      the infernalist war
      as well as the time the sabbat spent with the nahualli and the bloody wars that followed,
      each event driving them more depraved

      other than darwinism and tradition, the lasombra was more influenced by the sabbat than the sabbat was by the lasombra,
      especially when you consider how long it took for them to be part of the sabbat,
      when the Tzimisce were influencing the anarchs from the start
      I disagree as the Lasombra's Path of Night is about exalted in being an irredeemable asshole and Social Darwinism.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

        I disagree as the Lasombra's Path of Night is about exalted in being an irredeemable asshole and Social Darwinism.
        except the path of night isn't the mainstream path of the lasombra,
        the mainstream usually follow the path of power, or honorable accord
        and it was stated in canon that the mainstream disliked and avoided the lasombra on that path,

        it doesn't help that the path is the antithesis of the original Road of Night, which was actually a righteous path instead of a sinful one (although there is a righteous version of the path of night which is more in line with the original road)

        even when considering the sabbat "moral" history, the depraved paths took longer to become popular compared to the more righteous or noddist ones

        if you take the path of Cathari, for example, which is similar to the path of night, it took until the infernalist purge (200 years) before it became popular,
        whereas the path of power and honorable accord, gained popularity early on during the formation of the sabbat (and even before that, during the anarch revolt)


        -

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

          except the path of night isn't the mainstream path of the lasombra,
          the mainstream usually follow the path of power, or honorable accord
          and it was stated in canon that the mainstream disliked and avoided the lasombra on that path,

          it doesn't help that the path is the antithesis of the original Road of Night, which was actually a righteous path instead of a sinful one (although there is a righteous version of the path of night which is more in line with the original road)

          even when considering the sabbat "moral" history, the depraved paths took longer to become popular compared to the more righteous or noddist ones

          if you take the path of Cathari, for example, which is similar to the path of night, it took until the infernalist purge (200 years) before it became popular,
          whereas the path of power and honorable accord, gained popularity early on during the formation of the sabbat (and even before that, during the anarch revolt)
          Oh, here Matthew Dawkins says that Lasombra was controlling Gratiano all along as a puppet.



          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

          Comment


          • #20
            This should hardly surprise anyone. The real question is, to what degree were these Sabbat movers and shakers aware of being controlled? Vykos was influenced, if not directly controlled, by the Dracon and the Tzimisce Founder- but Vykos apparently did not become aware of this until some of the events surrounding BJD. Did Gratiano ever become aware of his controll, the way Vykos and Critias, became aware? This probably contributed to some of the Lasombra bolting for the Camarilla.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
              This should hardly surprise anyone. The real question is, to what degree were these Sabbat movers and shakers aware of being controlled? Vykos was influenced, if not directly controlled, by the Dracon and the Tzimisce Founder- but Vykos apparently did not become aware of this until some of the events surrounding BJD. Did Gratiano ever become aware of his controll, the way Vykos and Critias, became aware? This probably contributed to some of the Lasombra bolting for the Camarilla.
              In the Lasombra Trilogy, Lucita decides to join the Sabbat after figuring out the Antediluvians are real.

              She goes to speak with Gratiano and finds out that he's effectively a hollow shell that just repeats a bunch of fake memories and is clearly under Heavy Dominate.

              She apparetly came to the exact OPPOSITE conclusion that if your greatest warrior is a drooling husk that you should clearly stick with the home team.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • #22
                So did the fact that Regent Galbraith was Nergal's disciple die with her? That was one plot point that I always hoped to see more light on, if only to see the Sabbat have to wrestle with the fact that the Sabbat Inquisition (which reported to Galbraith directly) was never much more than her tool to weed out rival demon worshippers and put herself above suspicion.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Reasor View Post
                  So did the fact that Regent Galbraith was Nergal's disciple die with her? That was one plot point that I always hoped to see more light on, if only to see the Sabbat have to wrestle with the fact that the Sabbat Inquisition (which reported to Galbraith directly) was never much more than her tool to weed out rival demon worshippers and put herself above suspicion.
                  Given Mexico City is no longer in Sabbat hands, I think we can safely assume it's no longer a matter of importance.

                  Also, the Sabbat Inquisition is legit in places like Montreal.

                  Lucita's sister is also a legit Demon Hunter as she reported directly to Moncada, who had a weird Dark True Faith.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    It is easier to see the influence of the Tzimisce progenitor because Tzimisce got a lot more ink (at least two Black Hand books) explaining his relationship with his clan while Lasombra remained more in the dark. pun intended.

                    Lasombra may have ignored his clan primarily or may have exerted his power over them through the promise of power via the Friends of the Night and Dominate. He may be the reason why Diablerie is so acceptable in the Sabbat. Unfortunately, past writers never really gave many examples or stories around Lasombra. Lasombra never seemed to get as much love as Tzimisce.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      diablerie is one of those things that would have happened regardless of antediluvian influence,

                      without it, there would be no sabbat or black hand, and no anarch revolt to begin with

                      the ban on diablerie was the main tradition that elders used to keep the youngsters in check,
                      and was the main tradition to break to make the revolt possible


                      -

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
                        diablerie is one of those things that would have happened regardless of antediluvian influence,

                        without it, there would be no sabbat or black hand, and no anarch revolt to begin with

                        the ban on diablerie was the main tradition that elders used to keep the youngsters in check,
                        and was the main tradition to break to make the revolt possible
                        It was more the Blood Bond, I think.

                        The Blood Bond meant that chains of Elders ranging from the Antediluvian down to the local Prince's Brood were all enslaved. When those broke, thousands of years of resentments and abuses came crashing down. Ironically, in many cases, the Anarchs found their sires and their sire's sires hated the next one above them every bit as much as they were hated.

                        Diablerie was just a bonus.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I specifically said 'tradition', blood bond isn't a tradition, and goes both ways (a youngster can bond an elder),
                          but yes, breaking the bond was an important step (although, I'm not convinced that most anarchs had access to the vaulderie)

                          and, 'just a bonus' is a major understatement,
                          diablerie is what allows you to resist domination better, which goes hand in hand with breaking the bond,
                          it's what allows you to re-appropriate the elder's power to your cause (when it works),

                          it's also what allows you to sire,
                          no diablerie means more thinbloods,
                          for a sabbat, siring thinbloods is really bad, and since they have no way of tracking generation,
                          most weak bloods have to diablerize a bit before siring (this is canon, I'm not making this up)

                          and diablerie is what allows you to build a sect where youngsters have a chance (however small) to challenge their elders,
                          if the anarchs spent the whole revolt diablerizing, then banned diablerie after the formation of the sabbat, they wouldn't be much different from the Camarilla,
                          and there's only so much hypocrisy they can get away with before triggering a second revolt


                          -

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            For me, diablerie was never really something most Anarchs engaged in but the most radical and brutal of them. But this is one of those things that is surely down to the ST.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                              Oh, here Matthew Dawkins says that Lasombra was controlling Gratiano all along as a puppet.

                              I think that for 99% of us who thought for a second about it, that was already considered a fact.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I wonder what happened to the Big G by the time of V5.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X