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[V5] What’s Up with the Sabbat?

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  • Epimetreus
    started a topic [V5] What’s Up with the Sabbat?

    [V5] What’s Up with the Sabbat?

    Forgive me if I’ve missed something in my reading of the V5 books and the Chicago By Night draft, but has anyone figured out what exactly is going on with the Sabbat? When did they leave their North American/South American/European territories for the Middle East? Did all of them leave, or are there vozhd hiding in basements in Baltimore and Atlanta?

    What drove the Lasombra
    to request Camarilla membership
    ?

    Also, sorry if this has been covered on the forums somewhere and I missed that, too.

  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Kael03 View Post
    Is it really fooling them if everyone that left the castle that night was dominated into believing Gratiano at least destroyed Lasombra?
    Depends on your definition of fool.

    Gratiano being a drooling puppet does explain why a 4th generation vampire who killed an Antediluvian is only an Archbishop.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kael03
    replied
    Is it really fooling them if everyone that left the castle that night was dominated into believing Gratiano at least destroyed Lasombra?

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
    I wonder what happened to the Big G by the time of V5.
    I'm inclined to think he's probably been eaten by Lasombra or was destroyed by the Amis Noctis for fooling them for so long.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    I wonder what happened to the Big G by the time of V5.

    Leave a comment:


  • Illithid
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Oh, here Matthew Dawkins says that Lasombra was controlling Gratiano all along as a puppet.

    I think that for 99% of us who thought for a second about it, that was already considered a fact.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    For me, diablerie was never really something most Anarchs engaged in but the most radical and brutal of them. But this is one of those things that is surely down to the ST.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pleiades
    replied
    I specifically said 'tradition', blood bond isn't a tradition, and goes both ways (a youngster can bond an elder),
    but yes, breaking the bond was an important step (although, I'm not convinced that most anarchs had access to the vaulderie)

    and, 'just a bonus' is a major understatement,
    diablerie is what allows you to resist domination better, which goes hand in hand with breaking the bond,
    it's what allows you to re-appropriate the elder's power to your cause (when it works),

    it's also what allows you to sire,
    no diablerie means more thinbloods,
    for a sabbat, siring thinbloods is really bad, and since they have no way of tracking generation,
    most weak bloods have to diablerize a bit before siring (this is canon, I'm not making this up)

    and diablerie is what allows you to build a sect where youngsters have a chance (however small) to challenge their elders,
    if the anarchs spent the whole revolt diablerizing, then banned diablerie after the formation of the sabbat, they wouldn't be much different from the Camarilla,
    and there's only so much hypocrisy they can get away with before triggering a second revolt

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
    diablerie is one of those things that would have happened regardless of antediluvian influence,

    without it, there would be no sabbat or black hand, and no anarch revolt to begin with

    the ban on diablerie was the main tradition that elders used to keep the youngsters in check,
    and was the main tradition to break to make the revolt possible
    It was more the Blood Bond, I think.

    The Blood Bond meant that chains of Elders ranging from the Antediluvian down to the local Prince's Brood were all enslaved. When those broke, thousands of years of resentments and abuses came crashing down. Ironically, in many cases, the Anarchs found their sires and their sire's sires hated the next one above them every bit as much as they were hated.

    Diablerie was just a bonus.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pleiades
    replied
    diablerie is one of those things that would have happened regardless of antediluvian influence,

    without it, there would be no sabbat or black hand, and no anarch revolt to begin with

    the ban on diablerie was the main tradition that elders used to keep the youngsters in check,
    and was the main tradition to break to make the revolt possible

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Wilson
    replied
    It is easier to see the influence of the Tzimisce progenitor because Tzimisce got a lot more ink (at least two Black Hand books) explaining his relationship with his clan while Lasombra remained more in the dark. pun intended.

    Lasombra may have ignored his clan primarily or may have exerted his power over them through the promise of power via the Friends of the Night and Dominate. He may be the reason why Diablerie is so acceptable in the Sabbat. Unfortunately, past writers never really gave many examples or stories around Lasombra. Lasombra never seemed to get as much love as Tzimisce.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Reasor View Post
    So did the fact that Regent Galbraith was Nergal's disciple die with her? That was one plot point that I always hoped to see more light on, if only to see the Sabbat have to wrestle with the fact that the Sabbat Inquisition (which reported to Galbraith directly) was never much more than her tool to weed out rival demon worshippers and put herself above suspicion.
    Given Mexico City is no longer in Sabbat hands, I think we can safely assume it's no longer a matter of importance.

    Also, the Sabbat Inquisition is legit in places like Montreal.

    Lucita's sister is also a legit Demon Hunter as she reported directly to Moncada, who had a weird Dark True Faith.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reasor
    replied
    So did the fact that Regent Galbraith was Nergal's disciple die with her? That was one plot point that I always hoped to see more light on, if only to see the Sabbat have to wrestle with the fact that the Sabbat Inquisition (which reported to Galbraith directly) was never much more than her tool to weed out rival demon worshippers and put herself above suspicion.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
    This should hardly surprise anyone. The real question is, to what degree were these Sabbat movers and shakers aware of being controlled? Vykos was influenced, if not directly controlled, by the Dracon and the Tzimisce Founder- but Vykos apparently did not become aware of this until some of the events surrounding BJD. Did Gratiano ever become aware of his controll, the way Vykos and Critias, became aware? This probably contributed to some of the Lasombra bolting for the Camarilla.
    In the Lasombra Trilogy, Lucita decides to join the Sabbat after figuring out the Antediluvians are real.

    She goes to speak with Gratiano and finds out that he's effectively a hollow shell that just repeats a bunch of fake memories and is clearly under Heavy Dominate.

    She apparetly came to the exact OPPOSITE conclusion that if your greatest warrior is a drooling husk that you should clearly stick with the home team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    This should hardly surprise anyone. The real question is, to what degree were these Sabbat movers and shakers aware of being controlled? Vykos was influenced, if not directly controlled, by the Dracon and the Tzimisce Founder- but Vykos apparently did not become aware of this until some of the events surrounding BJD. Did Gratiano ever become aware of his controll, the way Vykos and Critias, became aware? This probably contributed to some of the Lasombra bolting for the Camarilla.

    Leave a comment:

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