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Do you think that bloodlines was, in any way, a sexist game?

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  • Do you think that bloodlines was, in any way, a sexist game?

    One of the writers of the new game called the prequel " a masculine power fantasy". I don't remember the game having any sexist elements.. but being male it's possible they went under my radar. I'm particularly interested in what female gamers think

  • #2
    Originally posted by mark View Post
    One of the writers of the new game called the prequel " a masculine power fantasy". I don't remember the game having any sexist elements.. but being male it's possible they went under my radar. I'm particularly interested in what female gamers think
    Relaying the opinions of my wife and a few others, it's a very popular game among women as well as a game that has a lot of female fans. However, the game irritated them in the fact that you can sleep with Jeanette and flirt heavily with Vivi (as well as sleep with her in the Modded version) but there's no male romantic options.

    You can't flirt with Nines or La Croix for example.

    Plus the vast majority of feeding options for Seduction (as in ALL of them but ONE) are beautiful women.

    Vampires are supposed to be sexy but it skewed heavily on the female fanservice.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

      but there's no male romantic options.
      Isaac's ghoul actually


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      • #4
        Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

        Isaac's ghoul actually
        True. You can in fact give him a handjob in a graveyard.




        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          True. You can in fact give him a handjob in a graveyard.

          is that what it was?
          cause I remember the vampire's screaming during the black screen,
          but it's been so long, so my memory ain't so clear
          Last edited by Pleiades; 07-17-2019, 04:33 PM.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

            True. You can in fact give him a handjob in a graveyard.

            "Just don't bite it... what? I meant my neck!"
            Last edited by Nyrufa; 07-17-2019, 04:47 PM.

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            • #7
              I think there was a disparity in the way female characters were sexualized in comparison to male characters.

              Almost every female character in Bloodlines wears highly revealing clothing and/or immediately flirts with the PC (Jeanette, Velvet, Venus, Heather, Pisha, every blood doll in a club and possibly Ming Xiao).

              Then there are the minor characters who solely exist as props to arouse the protaganist (Jezebel, Chastity, Misti, Nadia).

              Of all the female characters in Bloodlines, only six remain un-sexualized (Damsel, because she's meant to be a bitch; Doris, because she's an old lady; Patty, because she's annoying; Kiki, because she's annoying/a bitch; Samantha, because she's meant to be a moral anchor for the PC; and Lily, because she's madly in love with another man).

              Comparatively, only two male characters have scantily-clad outfits (Jack and Mitnick, neither of which were meant to be attractive) and only Romero flirts with the PC.



              That being said, I wouldn't consider Bloodlines to be a sexist game.

              Most of the female characters have varied and detailed personalties. The overt sexuality of characters like Jeanette and Velvet adds to their narratives, rather than reducing them. Most female characters are sexualized, yes, but they aren't objectified. Compared to most games circa 2004, and many games today, Bloodlines was ahead of its time.



              While I don't consider Bloodlines to be sexist, it's not wrong to call it a "male power fantasy". Most video games, especially ones about vampires or other supernatural creatures, are power fantasies. That's the point. Being a reality-bending, superhuman creature is the definition of a power fantasy.

              What makes a game like Bloodlines a "*male* power fantasy" is its strong partiality towards a male audience. It assumes (rightly or wrongly) that the player is a young man who will enjoy having scantily-clad vampire women flirt with him. It also assumes that having a joint 'female power fantasy' narrative would reduce male interest.

              There's nothing wrong with male power fantasies. Some of the most amazing games I've played have been male power fantasies, Bloodlines among them. But, as a female gamer, I would prefer a game that also catered to my interests. Male power fantasies have dominated the Action/Adventure genre of gaming/TV/movies for decades. I think the addition of some diversity is probably a good thing.
              Last edited by fuzzball6846; 07-17-2019, 06:50 PM.

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              • #8
                Dont forget the fan favorite when it comes to flirting: Chunk.

                I dont have more to add to this conversation.

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                • #9
                  Kat Phipps: I don't mind all the women being sexualized. Vampires are sexy. It's just throw something for us. After all, you can't have vampire fans without thirst.

                  Hehe.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • #10
                    As with most things, I feel defining our terms would solve almost all of our problems. What do we mean when we say "sexist"?

                    According to Google, sexism is "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex."
                    Sociologist Richard Schafer defines sexism as "an ideology in which one sex is considered superior to another".
                    Author Bell Hooks defines sexism as "A system of oppression that results in disadvantages for women."

                    According to the latter two of these definitions, there are some pretty easy metrics we can follow to test VtMB for sexism. Does the player get any advantages/disadvantages for picking one sex over another? Do different options present themselves based on the sex of the character? Do NPCs of Power/influence of both sexes appear in roughly equal frequency.

                    One thing I often see is that Sexism is conflated with Male Chauvinism. While the two are undeniably related, there are crucial differences.
                    Sexism, if we choose to define it as such for this discussion, would be a SYSTEMATIC differentiation of opportunity based on sex.
                    Male Chauvinism, if we choose to define it as such for this discussion, would be an IDEAL that men and women have different roles and should conform to them.

                    So where does that leave VtMB? I don't know. But I do know we'll arrive at a better, more complete answer, if we define our terms before presenting argument.


                    Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fuzzball6846 View Post
                      I think there was a disparity in the way female characters were sexualized in comparison to male characters.

                      Almost every female character in Bloodlines wears highly revealing clothing and/or immediately flirts with the PC (Jeanette, Velvet, Venus, Heather, Pisha, every blood doll in a club and possibly Ming Xiao).

                      Then there are the minor characters who solely exist as props to arouse the protaganist (Jezebel, Chastity, Misti, Nadia).

                      Of all the female characters in Bloodlines, only six remain un-sexualized (Damsel, because she's meant to be a bitch; Doris, because she's an old lady; Patty, because she's annoying; Kiki, because she's annoying/a bitch; Samantha, because she's meant to be a moral anchor for the PC; and Lily, because she's madly in love with another man).

                      Comparatively, only two male characters have scantily-clad outfits (Jack and Mitnick, neither of which were meant to be attractive) and only Romero flirts with the PC.



                      That being said, I wouldn't consider Bloodlines to be a sexist game.

                      Most of the female characters have varied and detailed personalties. The overt sexuality of characters like Jeanette and Velvet adds to their narratives, rather than reducing them. Most female characters are sexualized, yes, but they aren't objectified. Compared to most games circa 2004, and many games today, Bloodlines was ahead of its time.



                      While I don't consider Bloodlines to be sexist, it's not wrong to call it a "male power fantasy". Most video games, especially ones about vampires or other supernatural creatures, are power fantasies. That's the point. Being a reality-bending, superhuman creature is the definition of a power fantasy.

                      What makes a game like Bloodlines a "*male* power fantasy" is its strong partiality towards a male audience. It assumes (rightly or wrongly) that the player is a young man who will enjoy having scantily-clad vampire women flirt with him. It also assumes that having a joint 'female power fantasy' narrative would reduce male interest.

                      There's nothing wrong with male power fantasies. Some of the most amazing games I've played have been male power fantasies, Bloodlines among them. But, as a female gamer, I would prefer a game that also catered to my interests. Male power fantasies have dominated the Action/Adventure genre of gaming/TV/movies for decades. I think the addition of some diversity is probably a good thing.
                      I wonder what the solution is. Should the new game present women as less sexualised, or should it also sexualise men. Cause, being gay, i admit i like the second option a bit more

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mark View Post
                        I wonder what the solution is. Should the new game present women as less sexualised, or should it also sexualise men. Cause, being gay, i admit i like the second option a bit more
                        Considering it's vampire we're talking about, I'd go for the second, intermixed with letting sexuality be part of the storytelling rather than just serving as titillation.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mark View Post
                          I wonder what the solution is. Should the new game present women as less sexualised, or should it also sexualise men. Cause, being gay, i admit i like the second option a bit more
                          That depends entirely upon if they want sexual content to be a theme in the game or not. (If the Toreador trailer is anything to go by, they do...)

                          If they want sexual content to be a theme of the game, they would do right in providing lots of opportunities to flirt with men and women alike. Interactions would be key, showing that anyone can be equally sexy.

                          If they don't want to have sexual content as a theme, they would do well to draw attention as far away from sex as they can. Focus on the vampire condition, and consciously make your character turn away from sex in favor of blood, and stuff like that...


                          Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cifer View Post
                            Considering it's vampire we're talking about, I'd go for the second, intermixed with letting sexuality be part of the storytelling rather than just serving as titillation.
                            Keep in mind that vampires are not really supposed to care about sex. They have no physical sexual drive. So they might appreciate a beautiful person, but only intellectually, they will not be "turned on" by him/her

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mark View Post
                              I wonder what the solution is. Should the new game present women as less sexualised, or should it also sexualise men. Cause, being gay, i admit i like the second option a bit more
                              not being able to flirt with Isaac was probably the biggest disappointment of 20XX

                              also, all the male chars are extra large buff dudes, except the nosferatu,
                              meaning I could only enjoy playing the nossie as a male char


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