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  • Where was the second city?

    Somewhere in the Middle East, I guess.

    I don't remember anything said more specifically about where it was, but I'm wondering if anyone else can remember any mentions.


    Avatar by Jen.
    My Exalted characters:
    Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
    Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

  • #2
    Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post
    Somewhere in the Middle East, I guess.

    I don't remember anything said more specifically about where it was, but I'm wondering if anyone else can remember any mentions.
    Well it's a fictional city so the answer is nowhere.

    However, if we want to associate it with any actual location, I'd say that it is in the Empty Quarter of Saudi Arabia.

    That location is where a lot of people put the equally mythical Iram.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iram_of_the_Pillars

    Iram is sometimes called "Irad" and believed to be named after was the Son of Caine.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      Perhaps Turkey (near Gobleki Tepe), Northern Africa (Richat structure...) or in the Middle East. I'd go with any place your chronicle needs it.

      - Saga

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      • #4
        In my games somewhere between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, not too far from the iranian border. The first city on the other hand existed on an entirely diferent timescale and reality when the Angel-Demon war was still raging. In fact the "deluge" was just the after effect of the war's end and the vampires who survived that (three 2nd generation and fifteen 3rd generation cainites in my games) found themselves "stranded" in the current iteration of reality which was set by the angels when they won and before they left. They reappeared around the year 8.000 bC, founded the second city and resided there for aproximately 2 thousand years before the third generation's upraising, Caine's return and the city subsequent destruction and abandonment.

        -Enoch existed in a whole different concept of reality.
        -The fera appeared in the world tens of thousand of years before that (maybe millions of years before if you consider the Mokole). They existed in a different form during the Angel-Demon war and were called the Malhim.
        -Beings like Osiris and Thoth existed during the Angel-Demon war (Set was one of them before he was cast out and was taken as a childe by Enoch) but their cities appeared into the world before the vampires did.

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        • #5
          I lean towards Gobekli Tepe myself, mostly because it is real place.

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          • #6
            I also used Gobekli Tepe as the location of the Second City, being an interesting real world locale and what I pictured as the beginning of the Antediluvians diaspora.

            The First City I had located in the Fertile Crescent region but was entirely annihilated by the Great Flood (and thus ended up in the Underworld); thus it did not need to line up with any real world city. I preferred that it didn't because it allowed me to play fast and loose with pre-flood geography, the idea being that the flood reshaped parts of the world as well.
            Last edited by Cynic01; 07-29-2019, 11:47 PM.

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            • #7
              While it's never been an issue in my chronicles, I've always placed it in Sumeria, specifically the old city of Eridu, considered by the Sumerians to be the first city by the Sumerian King List (and thus home to kings who lived for thousands of years). Made sense to me at least. To me, it's OK if mythology trumps archaeology in the World of Darkness.

              Besides, it's always easy to insert some additional city levels unknown to archaeologists underneath the known tells as the actual Second City before historical Eridu.

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              • #8
                Some great ideas here, thanks.


                Avatar by Jen.
                My Exalted characters:
                Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

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                • #9
                  The first edition of Chicago by Night hints strongly as to its location, if you know your literary references...

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                  • #10
                    Do we have approximate dates for the existence of the First and Second Cities?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by James_Willoughby View Post
                      The first edition of Chicago by Night hints strongly as to its location, if you know your literary references...
                      Unfortunately, I don't have Chicago by Night, what does it say?


                      Avatar by Jen.
                      My Exalted characters:
                      Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                      Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zorin001 View Post
                        Do we have approximate dates for the existence of the First and Second Cities?
                        Well, the second city is post-flood.
                        If you take, say, young-Earth Creationists' calculations, they put the flood about 2300BC (ie about the time of Sargon of Akkad).

                        The Sumerian King List puts it before the First Dynasties of Kish and Uruk, which archeologists put at about 2900BC.

                        So, after that.


                        Avatar by Jen.
                        My Exalted characters:
                        Dr Soma Vaidya, viper-totem Lunar and kung-fu doctor
                        Brother Alazar, Zenith occultist and last survivor of the Black Monastery of Leng

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Wizard of Oz View Post

                          Well, the second city is post-flood.
                          If you take, say, young-Earth Creationists' calculations, they put the flood about 2300BC (ie about the time of Sargon of Akkad).

                          The Sumerian King List puts it before the First Dynasties of Kish and Uruk, which archeologists put at about 2900BC.

                          So, after that.
                          I once translated this. The Sumerian King List rulers before the flood is 408,666 years (which is measured in "sars" in a different way than the following ones). The comes the 1st dynasty of Kish which adds up to 17,980 years. The first rulers of Uruk (which they include Gilgamesh) add a total of 2310 years. Then, between the first dynasty of Ur, the dynasty of Awan, the second dynasty of Kish, the dynasty of Hamazi and the second dynasty of Uruk adds up to 3107 years.

                          There is a cuneiform tablet that depict the crash of a meteorite in the Austrian alps in June 29th, 3123 BC. Due to the meteorite trajectory, this is the probable cause for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

                          The flood is theorized lately that was caused by an asteroid impact during the Ice Age (the hiawatha crater in Greenland), which is contemporary a sudden rise of the ocean level and the disappearance of the Clovis culture in the northern hemisphere. The date is 125000 BP (or 10500 BC). So I would give the flood that dating.

                          Archaeologists are lately excavating sites that would further place civilization earlier than even Gobleki Tepe, so we still don't know exactly how old humanity is.

                          - Saga

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                          • #14
                            The second city was explicitly build in the ruins of the first city. As for dates it's strongly implied it fell in around 3000 bc. Give or take a few centuries

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                            • #15
                              Well...

                              There's a bit in V20 Black Hand about how old Necropolis Enoch is... and it's an anachronistic problem. On the one hand, by established history it can't predate 2000 BCE, but the excavation sites strain belief for being around prior to 9000 BCE.

                              Backing it up is that the Well of Sacrifice that spawned the Baali dates back to at least the time of the Second City, and it's said to have been lost for at least ten thousand years, putting it around 8000 BCE minimum.


                              Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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