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How do former thin-blood fit in?

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  • CookieSorcerer
    started a topic How do former thin-blood fit in?

    How do former thin-blood fit in?

    Hi! First time making a thread here.
    In V5, it is stated that thin bloods can diablerize their way into one of the 13 clans, and this may be even part of your character's story in bloodlines 2. It is also stated that the Camarilla may sometimes sanction a diablerie during a blood hunt. Now imagine that a thin blood performed a 'sanctioned' diablerie, and that this fact is publicly known by the kindred of a city.

    For clans that are less structured such as brujah, gangrel or Malkavian, I can see them being accepted into the fold more or less readily. Maybe some Lasombra would even commend them for overcoming the hardship of being a thin blood.

    But wouldn't a former thin blood be seen as suspect at best, or usurper at worst by the other clans? How would you handle that in your games?

  • Ruthven
    replied
    The Camarilla would still hold the lineage (or lack thereof) and the diablerie against the Thin Blood, even if sanctioned through a Blood Hunt. I mean, that's what Harpies do; they gossip, sneer and so forth. I would think the Thin Blood would still be saddled with some sort of social status penalty to social rolls interacting with Camarilla who did not begin their unlives as Thin Bloods. The recently arrived Lasombra might be an exception because of the practices of the Amici Noctis; who sometimes sanction the Amaranth among the Lasombra. You're unlikely to get any kudos from the Anarchs either, unless the target of the Blood Hunt was hated by the local Anarchs too. If the target of the Blood Hunt was a respected Anarch, I doubt the Thin Blood would receive a warm welcome among the Anarchs for committing diablerie in service to a Camarilla prince. The Thin Blood might be "of a clan" now in terms of vampiric strengths and weaknesses, but that doesn't mean the clan accepts the Thin Blood as one of their own, some of the clan might have resented the Blood Hunt and favored the victim of the Blood Hunt.

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  • Nosimplehiway
    replied
    Some of it may also depend on who was diablerized. In most cases, a blood hunt with sanctioned diablerie is very serious business. The Camarilla does not just pull a name from a hat and declare such a blood hunt. Those subject to it have, by definition, burnt their very last bridge and lost all political support and sympathy from every kindred in the city who matters. In most cities, if even one respectable kindred were to speak up on their behalf, the accused would at least have their sentence reduced to a blood hunt, without diablerie.

    In short, there are unlikely to be any tears shed for the vampire who was diablerized.

    So, while it is an unorthodox way to enter a clan, I imagine most local kindred would accept the outcome.

    That said, there is still the thorny issue of proper indoctrination into the clan in question. For some, this is an organic process of developing the traits of the clan. For some, like most High Clans, this involves an active program of education and indoctrination. Just throwing the newbie into a clan without knowing the internal rules is unlikely to turn out well.

    The other question is whether this is a transferable asset. That is, could the would-be diablerist sell the right to diablerie of a victim they have subdued to the highest bidder?

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  • Quatar
    replied
    I don't think it's something new, it's just been codified for the first time.

    Let me elaborate: I wondered before "What happens with a Caitiff (an actual caitiff with no clan weakness) if they diablorize their way up to 13th, 11th, or 8th generation? Are they still an actual Caitiff with no clan weakness?" or "Same question for a 15th generation Thin Blood. What happens if they Diablorize their way to 13th gen or lower?"

    For the second question, it was fairly easy to answer "There are no 13th gen thin bloods, so do they lose the thin blood trait at that point". For the first one though, it was not. There was never a definitive answer given. I would have assumed that either a) They finally manifest the blood traits of their sire's clan, as the blood becomes thick enough or b) they manifest the traits of the clan of the vampire they eat.

    V5 now qualifies that b) is in fact what happens.

    But - and this is a big, capital letter BUT - I don't think this is meant as "a way into the clan" or "This is how your thin blood should progress". But now that thin-bloods are almost becoming the "default PC choice", there needs to be rules for that situation, because some players will no doubt try to figure out what happens when they eat another vampire.

    What happens is they manifest the trademark weaknesses and benefits of the clan. Mechanically you are now a member of that clan. That's it. It does not mean that they are recognized by anyone as being an actual member of said clan.

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  • Serpent Axis
    replied
    One very important thing to remember about vampire society in general is that it is essentially a sham run by savages who pretend they're civilized (i.e. respectful of etiquette, minder of traditions, titles, rules and regulations) but are actually little better than street gang thugs.
    This is a flat out lie because all vampire society basically comes down to strength, the ability to enforce one's status or desires by force.

    The only difference between vampires and the Orks of Warhammer 40k is that vampires (mostly) don't breed by spreading fungus - otherwise, they might as well WAAAGH!

    If a vampire is strong enough - either through amassing a ridiculous number of Disciplines and honing them enough to be a walking nightmare, or by way of influence, prestation debt and just having blackmail material on other vampires - they can pretty much enforce anything.

    This is part of why in some cities the Primogen are the true power, a formidable vipers' nest of a council who "guide" the Prince as their puppet - while in other cities, the Prince is the strong one and the Primogen are basically figureheads serving at his pleasure.

    For clans that are less structured such as brujah, gangrel or Malkavian,
    You take that back about Malkavians.

    Just because you can't see the structure or understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When that hive mind thing rears its head, Malkavians actually have more structure than all the Giovanni, Tremere and Ventrue combined...

    ...Not that there's a hive mind or any mysterious connection between Malkavians, of course...

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by CookieSorcerer View Post
    Hi! First time making a thread here.
    In V5, it is stated that thin bloods can diablerize their way into one of the 13 clans, and this may be even part of your character's story in bloodlines 2. It is also stated that the Camarilla may sometimes sanction a diablerie during a blood hunt. Now imagine that a thin blood performed a 'sanctioned' diablerie, and that this fact is publicly known by the kindred of a city.

    For clans that are less structured such as brujah, gangrel or Malkavian, I can see them being accepted into the fold more or less readily. Maybe some Lasombra would even commend them for overcoming the hardship of being a thin blood.

    But wouldn't a former thin blood be seen as suspect at best, or usurper at worst by the other clans? How would you handle that in your games?
    I think that depends on how you think of diablerie in your game.

    In my game diablerie is something that is touted as a monstrous crime by the Camarilla but most of its elders have indulged in it at some points in their lives. Basically, it's too good a thing if you weren't born low generation. It's just something you don't brag about at Elysium and lie about your generation regarding. Generally, in my games, I always had any Thin Blood who diableizes someone end up as a Caitiff rather than the Clan they diablerized but Bloodlines 2 is going with something different.

    So I don't expect anyone will accept Thin Blood diablerist Davy Jones with open arms but he's now a "real" vampire.

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  • Kammerer
    replied
    I highly doubt that there's a definitive answer, as thin-bloods are a pretty recent occurrence. But my guess - badly. Very, very badly. Every 'ascended' thin-blood is a monstrous cannibal who killed and gorged themselves on the blood of your clan member. Your best bet as such thin-blood is probably to leave the town as soon as you can, start a new life somewhere and pray no one ever finds out about your origins.

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