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When is Elysium no longer Elysium?

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  • When is Elysium no longer Elysium?

    I know the books say Elysium is a shaky thing in Kindred society. Too many violations (possibly one violation) and local kindred lose faith that it is one.

    So how many times can it be moved?

    How many times can kindred be locked out?

    What if the praxis bans a whole clan from Elysium?

    What are the cicumstances that actually merit the local vanpire body to stop trusting the local Elysium, or until other groups like Sabbat and Independents start to mock it? Or the princes ability to control it?

  • #2
    The obvious answer: It depends on the circumstances.
    Stuff the Prince does except for direct, unprovoked violence and discipline usage will very rarely have an effect on Elysium. Banning some people from Elysium is perfectly fine, especially if it's just riff-raff noone important really misses anyway - and as long as those in power remain, everyone else will do so too because Elysium is the easiest way of getting in contact with them.
    As for moving Elysium, I would assume that happens rather regularly in the nights of the Second Inquisition, though that one's probably a matter of theme versus realism. When an intelligence agency is watching your kind, having a grand meeting place seems like asking for trouble, but then again, the court setting is just such a staple of the genre that it would be a shame to leave it out.

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    • #3
      What about scenarios where the keeper runs in and has everyone leave, closing it indefinitely and this happens fairly often? Even for little things?

      Thanks for the quick reply. I understand all these things are very subjective but leaving out big things and major outside interference.

      Has anyone read of an event where a city has no Elysium because one clan seems to be manipulating or because the sanctity has been otherwise befouled?
      Last edited by Talvas; 08-04-2019, 06:21 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Talvas View Post
        What about scenarios where the keeper runs in and has everyone leave, closing it indefinitely and this happens fairly often? Even for little things?
        Depends on the general mood. In cities that are already paranoid because the Sabbat or the Second Inquisition are present, a Keeper will have plenty of leeway and most Kindred would rather postpone their business a few times than have the Keeper underestimate a real threat. In calmer cities, this kind of behaviour would see the Elysium not abolished (unless the Prince gets annoyed), but slowly made irrelevant.

        Consider: For all their talk of immortality, Kindred actually have relatively little time. Many humans stay awake somewhere around 16 to 19 hours per day. Today, on the 4th of August, Kindred in Britain and similar degrees of latitude have 8 1/2 hours between sunset and sunrise - and it never gets better than 16 hours (around Winter solstice). Kindred have certain advantages - they can delegate tasks to ghouls, they subsist on about one meal per night, they don't go to the bathroom, they don't get sick and traffic jams are less frequent in the middle of the night. However, anything that wastes an elder's time beyond what is acceptable will be scrutinized.

        If an elder spends half an hour being outfitted for Elysium, half an hour being driven there and half an hour getting back, they might take a dim view of the Keeper shutting things down twenty minutes after they arrive. Depending on circumstances, this might lead to three things: Either the elder leans on the Keeper to not let this happen too often or the elder relies more on private meetings (preferably in their own domain) or they petition the Prince to open another Elysium with a less fickle Keeper.

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        • #5
          Thank you, that explains it all very clearly. I'd say this is one of those more paranoid cities. The prince only has half the rest is contested by literally every other group in WoD.

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