No announcement yet.

[V5] How to get away with diablerie now?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    Except for during a Blood Hunt, literally the only legal form of justice the vampires have.

    Vampires commit diablerie all the time.

    Almost all Elders have done it at least once in their lives. Why? Because vampires are hypocrites. The more a vampire hates it, the more likely they've done it.

    That's how I run it, at least.
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    By definition, diablerie on a member of the Sabbat would not be a crime.

    Blood Hunts literally are sanctioned diablerie.

    Technically, diablerie outside of your domain might not be a crime as well.
    That may of course be how you run it. However, canon seems rather more divided on the issue.
    The new Camarilla guide doesn't say much on the subject, so I'm using the Revised one. There is no indication at all there that "almost all elders have done it". Most listed Camarilla NPCs in Vampire have exactly the generation they should have. As for the Blood Hunt, the book says that the most common approach to Diablerie is "benign neglect": The wording of the hunt does not say that Diablerie is acceptable, though it's implicitly assumed - but actually making use of this assumption means the Prince now has absolute leverage over the Diablerist and the Diablerist should better make sure the Prince stays in power because their successor might just use the Diablerie and its non-punishment as a reason to execute both the former Prince and the Diablerist. Explicit permission or prohibition are given more rarely, either to encourage more participation or to make sure hunters don't get too strong on very old blood.

    The main thing to keep in mind about Diablerie is that it often creates Diablerie addicts. And Elders really don't like having those around, for very obvious reasons. That's why even diablerizing Sabbat or Anarchs isn't completely safe - the problem about Diablerie is not that vampires feel that victims deserve justice, it's that they really don't like having unpredictable murderers around who may or may not be itching for their next fix.

    Spoiler for Chicago by Night and particularly The Sacrifice
    The general prohibition against Diablerie still exists in V5. The main antagonist of the story would rather have several personal guests and agents of the Prince murdered, directly violating the tradition of Destruction, than allow the Lasombra into the Camarilla because of his fear that some completely different Lasombra have seen him diablerize someone and might spread the word about that. So: Accusations about Diablerie are so damaging that a Primogen fears the hearsay of some ex-Sabbat turncoats. That's... not exactly a "everyone's doing it" situation.

    Also, the Blood Hunt isn't the "only legal form of justice" - that would be rather silly, with every transgression either being completely ignored or resulting in death. Princes can take away domains or ghouls or other assets, they can have the offender tortured or staked, they can take away status and offices, they can blood bond someone.

    Last edited by Cifer; 08-08-2019, 07:02 PM.


    • #17
      I don't think you need to hide the fact Son is a diablerist because Son's diablerie is something that has been known since the 2nd Chicago by Night when he committed against the seven year old Neon. The thing about Son's diablerie is that he committed the act outside of the sanction of the Blood Hunt and did it against both: 1. A child vampire. 2. His own sire. 3. A third unidentified Kindred that the Lasombra witnessed.

      I should also point out that Cedrick Calhoun, who is a popular Elder of the Nosferatu, has the veins of diablerie and it hasn't impacted his ascension to Primogen.

      My View on Diablerie

      I was engaged in a bit of hyperbole but my view of diablerie is that it is something that is a horrific crime among Kindred and something that will permanently mar your social status. However, the actual practice of it isn't something that the Kindred necessarily treat the way they claim they do. Elders talk about diablerie as a horrific unforgivable crime and then offer the blood of their enemies to reward Neonates.

      The Assamites, Giovanni, Sabbat, and Anarchs have very different views on diablerie than the Camarilla but is the Camarilla that has sanctioned its use in the Blood Hunt. Like violating the right of destruction, diablerie is something that no Kindred wants you to admit to but will ignore it if you're an ally. My inclination is that you are expected to commit diablerie and then deny it or not bring attention to it.

      Even if you committed it, have black veins, and everyone knows you did it--then its your little secret. A Kindred can't blackmail you with a sanctioned diablerie even if it's publicly gauche.
      Last edited by CTPhipps; 08-08-2019, 09:18 PM.

      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.


      • #18
        And what do you do with lasombra integrated to the Camarilla who had before said integration received the autorisation to diablerize by the Amici Nocti ? An in-clan sanctionned diablerie (a practice done before the birth of the Sabbat, even....).


        • #19
          Likely by that time the stains on the aura would have faded unless the Lasombra in question becomes a serial diablerist and/or derps out and openly announces they have committed the worst deed possible to a group that has people on a permanent "kill on sight" list for similar deeds.


          • #20
            Hi! So I am new here and this is my first post, but I wanted to chime in.
            Since I just stumbled upon it, after reading the Disciplines again: Fortitude 3 (Fortify the Inner Facade) is a must here and should probably be standard for every vampire that has access to it and attends Elysium on a regular basis. Then there is Willpower you can use to re-roll dice when resisting the scrying. And at last, the storyteller might offer you a win at a cost, maybe having blocked the scrying but in the process pushing down the memories of your misdeeds so deep, you get a penalty on your next remorse roll.
            It also helps to have Auspex 1 (Sense the Unseen), at least this might tell you when being spied upon by another Auspex-user, so you can persuade them to keep their mouth shut, if they do not reveal your crimes on the spot. A lot of the bloodsuckers are egotistical opportunistic blackmailers, so I guess many of them would at least consider blackmailing you before screaming "Shame! Shame! at the Elysium...