Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[V5]Thoughts on Vienna

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Are you okay? Because you're ignoring the thing called the Pogrom that is explicitly, "Kill every supernatural in the World" that is in every book about the Technocracy.

    Yes, the Technocracy wants to bring about Mass Ascension.

    Which they will do by killing every supernatural in the world. It's in the Precepts of Damien.

    https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Precepts_of_Damian
    Technocracy will do so by following the precepts, only one of which Article 5 is "Destroy Reality Deviants."
    The other 5 have nothing to do with this concept so that makes the statement "Which they will do by killing every supernatural in the world ", a misleading one.

    In regards to Article 5: "PAY! SPECIAL! ATTENTION! TO THE WORDING! It’s not “kill” RDs; it’s destroy RDs. Some threats can be ended by bopping them on the nose and telling them to fuck off. " --T20

    There is a similar passage in the 1999 guide to this as well saying destroy doesn't mean kill.


    1993 Books
    NWO — No open hostilities
    Progenitors—A threat to neutralize by other means
    Syndicate —Establish mutual beneficial relationships
    Iteration X —vampire are of little concern.
    Void Engineers —no mention

    1999 — Guide to the technocracy — Vampires: Observe, but do not engage. Threat level minimal.

    2001 -2013 Books
    NWO — There is no open hostility between vampires and the Technocracy.
    Progenitors —Disagree with no open hostility policy, but leaves it to other conventions.
    Syndicate-- ???? < I don't have this book currently, must have loaned it out >
    Iteration X — We don’t try to explain them, we just shut them down if they get out of hand
    Void Engineers —Of course, with war resources being what they are, the front against vampires isn’t a priority

    Also technically anything below 9 on the Damian scale isn't a deviant.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Oder of Hermes former house Thig members being behind the attack on Vienna to make "House Thig Great Again!" would be an interesting concept to explore in my opinion.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gubenyochi View Post

      2001 -2013 Books
      NWO — There is no open hostility between vampires and the Technocracy.
      In fact, it mentions that Clan Tremere Vampires do not "violate the stability of reality" with their magic. "As a threat, they have been downgraded as not worth the additional manpower, since they respect the Masquerade and do not risk Sleeper exposure."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gubenyochi View Post

        Syndicate-- ???? < I don't have this book currently, must have loaned it out >
        Syndicate is that Vampires are different. Camerilla are to ignore or to try to come to mutual agreements because they controll vast parts of the market and they do not show themselves while the Sabbat is to get eliminated with all meanings. Ghosts are either benefitual if you have support of the VE or annoying because with their spooking they disturb deals, from Changelings they have not heard anythings like Mummies and Hunters are just seen as those spiritual believers like Inquisitors so they are favoured because they do the technocracies job while needing equipment. Garou on the other hand are the worst enemy because they fight against technic with religious zeal and if you have a Garou problem and where not able to redirect them to your enemies, you better minimize the damage, retreat yourself from the property and request high weaponized support from the other conventions to take care of it.


        As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
        First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
        Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

        Comment


        • 1999 also establishes that vampires are one of the only times Code: Ragnarok has been implemented in their history with the other being Czar Vargo.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
            1999 also establishes that vampires are one of the only times Code: Ragnarok has been implemented in their history with the other being Czar Vargo.

            Yeah because of the Ravnos Antedeluvian waking up. But it's kind of reaching to point at that, a threat which almost every other Supernatural creature in existence sat up and took note of, and say it's indicative of all Vampires relationship with the Technocracy.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Orphan81 View Post


              Yeah because of the Ravnos Antedeluvian waking up. But it's kind of reaching to point at that, a threat which almost every other Supernatural creature in existence sat up and took note of, and say it's indicative of all Vampires relationship with the Technocracy.
              Okay sure.

              But my view is that if the Technocracy got rid of its other problems, they'd get rid of vampires and they wouldn't mis an opportunity to exterminate the undead if they could take it with low risk.

              But, hey, if you disagree that's your benefit.

              :thumbs up:


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Orphan81 View Post
                Yeah because of the Ravnos Antedeluvian waking up. But it's kind of reaching to point at that, a threat which almost every other Supernatural creature in existence sat up and took note of, and say it's indicative of all Vampires relationship with the Technocracy.
                I think it is reasonable that at that point the Technocracy and the Camarilla, two groups that had until then been maintaining a masquerade and considered the other one to be self-policing, reevaluated the potential threat level the other side posed. To he Technocracy, the sheer level of power that vampires could attain, and the threat they could pose must have come as a shock. Particularily the Ravnos Antediluvian who was on very bad terms with reality to begin with.

                To the Camarilla, the speed of the Mages reaction, once they started to piece together what had happened, and their readiness to kill a vampires as powerful as an Antediluvian must have been an equal shock.

                Comment


                • How does the technocracy know that Ravnos was a vampire exactly? and if anything, how does killing the little bloodsuckers have any impact on the great ones?

                  If the technocracy went after vampires, vampires would go after the technocracy, and after a couple of rounds that would not go well for the tech geeks. They might win battles, but they can't win wars. I suppose that's kinda what the V5 metaplot is supposed to suggest; that the inquisition will make some stunning victories before being stomped, but the technocracy have a lot other, external pressures upon them; If they stretch themselves fighting vampires then the traditions and nephandi and whatever else will jump in on them, and the technocracy have a lot more to lose than your regular hunter types (Who tend to have nothing to lose)


                  Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                    How does the technocracy know that Ravnos was a vampire exactly? and if anything, how does killing the little bloodsuckers have any impact on the great ones?

                    If the technocracy went after vampires, vampires would go after the technocracy, and after a couple of rounds that would not go well for the tech geeks. They might win battles, but they can't win wars. I suppose that's kinda what the V5 metaplot is supposed to suggest; that the inquisition will make some stunning victories before being stomped, but the technocracy have a lot other, external pressures upon them; If they stretch themselves fighting vampires then the traditions and nephandi and whatever else will jump in on them, and the technocracy have a lot more to lose than your regular hunter types (Who tend to have nothing to lose)
                    The Technocracy doesn't go after vampires right now (unless they're a target of opportunity) because they have their hands full with the Traditions. But it's like communism, you eventually plan to go after all capitalist nations.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                      The Technocracy doesn't go after vampires right now (unless they're a target of opportunity) because they have their hands full with the Traditions. But it's like communism, you eventually plan to go after all capitalist nations.
                      They don't go after reality deviants themselves, but are fine with other killing reality deviants. I can easily buy into the idea that the Technocracy is not heavily involved in the SI, but are helping it here and there and supplying weapons, shielding it from bureaucratic enemies and so on.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                        The Technocracy doesn't go after vampires right now (unless they're a target of opportunity) because they have their hands full with the Traditions. But it's like communism, you eventually plan to go after all capitalist nations.

                        It's not even the Traditions. It's all the other existential threats to reality. It's the Nephandus, those are the real enemies, the Traditions are even further down the list compared to the things from the Deep Umbra, and the things the different Fallen mages craft up. They've stopped MULTIPLE full on, Walking Dead style Zombie viruses, among other world ending threats. Outside of another Antedeluivian waking up, Vampires are small potatoes, they even work with the Camarilla to keep things covered up.

                        Comment


                        • Whoops! Wrong topic!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Orphan81 View Post
                            It's not even the Traditions. It's all the other existential threats to reality. It's the Nephandus, those are the real enemies, the Traditions are even further down the list compared to the things from the Deep Umbra, and the things the different Fallen mages craft up. They've stopped MULTIPLE full on, Walking Dead style Zombie viruses, among other world ending threats. Outside of another Antedeluivian waking up, Vampires are small potatoes, they even work with the Camarilla to keep things covered up.
                            Mind you, 90% of their resources were against the Traditions. The Nephandi and Marauders are the real threats.

                            But I've always felt the central theme was the Technocracy had devoted massive amounts of resources to hunting down people who are the least harmful of all supernaturals.

                            Traditionalists generally ALSO being on humanity's side.

                            It's my biggest criticism of T20. I want a Technocracy that murders a child for levitating her dolls and kills a mages parents so they can be cloned. I don't want a Technocracy science-heroing through the world. I want a World of Darkness where the people dedicated to saving it are utterly consumed by the war that they are every bit as evil as the things they fight.

                            "In the grim dark present, there is only war."



                            That's not the way they've gone, though. They've decided to soften the Union instead of harden it. Oh well, at least I'll always have Threat Null.


                            Last edited by CTPhipps; 08-12-2020, 06:50 PM.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                            Comment


                            • Nephandi suck as antagonists, Mage still hasn't learned the lesson


                              -

                              Comment


                              • I agree that Nephandi certainly can suck as antagonists, but I don’t think that’s always the case.

                                While the more surface level satanic panic style Nephandus or Serial Killer nephandus can certainly feel one note unless an ST puts work into fleshing them out, there are merits to having villainous villains who can be readily faced for their villainy. The cultist might truly believe the Dark Powers are best and the serial killer might have a tragic past, but they provide solid meat-and-potatoes horror and antagonism.

                                If you’re just going to use them simply though, I would lean towards just using them as Nephandic-aligned sorcerers though.

                                Full Nephandi plots though can be very interesting for their exploration of the nature of ‘evil’ and whether or not such a label actually has any meaning or useful purpose. They can explore other, darker, perspectives on life and philosophies.

                                Is the Nephandus who declares that life in the World of Darkness is an absurd tragedy playing out for eternity without satisfactory conclusion actually wrong? Do they not have a certain point? Does their desire to end the constant onslaught of pain and suffering not make a certain amount of sense? If the world is truly lost to corruption already, is it not better, more merciful, to put it out of its misery quickly rather then drawing it out?

                                The Nephandus can ask certain questions that no one else can and I think that makes them extraordinary useful.

                                (Although I agree that making everything ‘the nephandi did it’ does feel kinda lazy and taking away from other groups potential to be villains in their own right. Either way, I feel this discussion is becoming slightly tangential to Vampire)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X