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Questions about the Abomination Sobek

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  • Questions about the Abomination Sobek

    https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Sobek_(Abomination)

    So Sobek is rumored to be a 4th gen mokole Abomination. Is this true or canon? Does anyone know more references except wiki's?

    And I don't know much about W:tA, but it is said that mokole are immune to embrace because of the Helios' blessing. So how does Set do this? Is there any Ritual or something else in canon can do this which are totally contrary to common sense?
    Last edited by Rock113; 08-19-2019, 09:54 PM.

  • #2
    Mokole aren't immune to the embrace, they get the same checks as garou but if the embrace takes they shift to archid and enter a day long frenzy killing anything they can get get their teeth/claws on and then die at the end of it.

    Its unknown exactly how Set acheived what he did with Sobek but I assume 'special Antediluvian stuff'.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Damian May View Post
      Its unknown exactly how Set acheived what he did with Sobek but I assume 'special Antediluvian stuff'.
      Maybe something like Lv.10 Disciplines or Rituals which can break the universal rules. I recall mages’ Archspheres, you can use Prime 6 to restore cainites to mortals, very unimaginable but accessible...

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      • #4
        Set cursed an entire werewolf tribe to never be able to stay within their homeland again. Preventing one Mokole from dying after giving it the Embrace doesn't seem particularly crazy in comparison.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
          Set cursed an entire werewolf tribe to never be able to stay within their homeland again. Preventing one Mokole from dying after giving it the Embrace doesn't seem particularly crazy in comparison.
          Details please... what happened to Silent Strider...

          And does canon mention how to curse the whole tribes?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Rock113 View Post
            And does canon mention how to curse the whole tribes?
            Step 1: Get yourself an undead demi-god.
            Step 2: ???
            Step 3: Gehenna!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Rock113 View Post

              Details please... what happened to Silent Strider...
              https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Silent_Striders

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              • #8
                It seems like Set sever their connection with the ancestor spirits... an epic feat only exist in plots...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rock113 View Post

                  Maybe something like Lv.10 Disciplines or Rituals which can break the universal rules. I recall mages’ Archspheres, you can use Prime 6 to restore cainites to mortals, very unimaginable but accessible...
                  In fairness, "break the universal rules" is sort of Set's whole shtick. They say we'll get a new one, but I don't believe the brochure.

                  Anyway, there's always the level 10 discipline power "Plot Device".

                  What? You want more detail? Fine.

                  Canon doesn't answer how Set did this, but I'll take a guess.

                  Akhu (aka Setite Sorcery) turns Egyptian burial practices on its head. You build a Blasphemy Shrine to somebody who was buried with great pomp and circumstance... ideally, incorporating the pomp, the circumstance, and the corpse into the shrine. This creates a sympathetic tie to the soul (well, part of it... there's ba, ka, etc, but that's irrelevant for now) over in the Western Lands. The Western Lands are the Egyptian heaven... well, hell once you get the shrine built.

                  You see, the blasphemy part of the shrine tortures the dead soul into sending you energy. (In mage terms, quintessence.) This energy is put into jewelry, symbols, calligraphy, handicrafts, unguents, perfumes, and effigies. These are all symbols. Symbols are a big deal in Akhu. See, Akhu symbols don't represent their referent object, they are the referent object. In Egyptology, you often see various names of people which (who?) have been blotted out by carving into their names. If every copy of your name is destroyed, your soul in the Western Lands is destroyed. On the other hand, when you appropriate a symbol of a target and represent it with well made symbols, you gain power over the target.

                  Now, what happens if you embrace a Mokole, they die, and get buried with lots of pomp and circumstance? Mokole are kind of known for their long memory and commemoration of the past, so imagine for a moment how much pomp and circumstance a Mokole family might have for a death. This would make a Mokole an amazing subject for a Blasphemy Shrine.

                  "But, wait. What about the corpse? Sobek's corpse is reported to be walking around, not in a blasphemy shrine?", you ask.

                  A Mokole dies, and their soul returns to a new Mokole body... presumably after a vacation in the Western Lands. So, kill a Mokole, let the tribe bury the Mokole, steal the Mokole corpse and grave goods, and build a shrine. Use the death energies to allow part of the soul (Ba? Ka? I forget.) to return and enter a new Mokole. Repeat this as many times as you can manage. This gives you a really, really big shrine incorporating multiple Mokole, all with the same soul.

                  This gives you a rushing river of death energy. Hmmm. Death energy. Know mage? Know jhor? Council mages associate it with the Sphere of Entropy. Entropy is usually associated with death and decay, but can also be used to stabilize and preserve stuff. If there's one thing Egyptian magic knew, it was preserving the dead.

                  Set built a shrine using corpses of dead Mokole, all with the same soul, and channeled the energy to sustaining the Mokole as an Abomination.

                  Sobek isn't so much a vampire, as a sentient effigy resulting from an Akhu ritual.

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                  • #10
                    Sobek is referenced in [Cb-FoSR, pg. 47] and [CtB, pg. 100]. IIRC he is not mentioned again (yet).

                    - Saga

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                    • #11
                      One imagines that, if it was easy, Set would have made a lot more of them. A mokole abomination sounds ridiculously overpowered.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Reasor View Post
                        One imagines that, if it was easy, Set would have made a lot more of them. A mokole abomination sounds ridiculously overpowered.
                        Not really.

                        Sunlight, fire, and decapitation are the usual.

                        The biggest mistake any vampire ever makes is trying to fight Shifters rather than kill them.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • #13
                          Given that he would be 4th gen +3000 years old abomination, from the setite clan that would not work. Helluva lot of dice to soak (skin of the adder) + Fortitude.
                          Even more if he has Serpentis 9 Pact with Ra the sun might not be a problem and if he has Shadow of Apep he could be immune to physical damage.

                          Archid form grants you +4 Strg -1 Dex +4 Stam.
                          To that you must add characteristics bought when he was a Mokole, gifts, and all the discipline a 4th gen millennia old can have.
                          Given that Kemintiri has 69 discipline dots...

                          ìIt would be a true juggernaut.
                          Last edited by Undead rabbit; 08-21-2019, 01:32 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                            Given that he would be 4th gen +3000 years old abomination, from the setite clan that would not work. Helluva lot of dice to soak (skin of the adder) + Fortitude.
                            Even more if he has Serpentis 9 Pact with Ra the sun might not be a problem and if he has Shadow of Apep he could be immune to physical damage.

                            Archid form grants you +4 Strg -1 Dex +4 Stam.
                            To that you must add characteristics bought when he was a Mokole, gifts, and all the discipline a 4th gen millennia old can have.
                            Given that Kemintiri has 69 discipline dots...

                            ìIt would be a true juggernaut.
                            Yeah, but if somebody turns off his heatlamp, he just sits there trying to work up the energy to digest blood.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Saga View Post
                              Sobek is referenced in [Cb-FoSR, pg. 47] and [CtB, pg. 100]. IIRC he is not mentioned again (yet).
                              I suspect if Sobek is true, iirc Setites like boasting their ancestor...
                              Originally posted by Reasor View Post
                              One imagines that, if it was easy, Set would have made a lot more of them. A mokole abomination sounds ridiculously overpowered.
                              Well iirc one VtM book mentions that there are many ghouled mokoles around Set or Sobek temples but I can't remember which, not those two books Saga says.

                              Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                              Given that he would be 4th gen +3000 years old abomination, from the setite clan that would not work. Helluva lot of dice to soak (skin of the adder) + Fortitude.
                              Even more if he has Serpentis 9 Pact with Ra the sun might not be a problem and if he has Shadow of Apep he could be immune to physical damage.

                              Archid form grants you +4 Strg -1 Dex +4 Stam.
                              To that you must add characteristics bought when he was a Mokole, gifts, and all the discipline a 4th gen millennia old can have.
                              Given that Kemintiri has 69 discipline dots...

                              ìIt would be a true juggernaut.
                              Much crazier than Samuel Haight.

                              Although Sobek may have many disadvantages, it does mix two craziest things (Mokole and 4th gens!) together.

                              That's why I oppose crossover hybrids, they're uncompromising freaks even if you add many limitations on them.

                              EDIT:
                              Well iirc one VtM book mentions that there are many ghouled mokoles around Set or Sobek temples but I can't remember which, not those two books Saga says.
                              Uh I find it, which is in the page 48 of Cb-FoSR, my bad memory...
                              Last edited by Rock113; 08-22-2019, 10:49 PM.

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