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[V5] Tzimisce Signature Discipline

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  • [V5] Tzimisce Signature Discipline

    "Mutatio" is listed as one of the names for Protean. I'm speculating that instead of "Vicissitude" Tzimisce will have Protean in the form of "Mutatio" with some clan specific discipline powers, in addition to the main rulebook options. I think the likely candidates would be level 3-5 powers; allowing for bodily transformations of the self (level 3) and others (level 4); and finally the old favorite of a "bat-like monstrosity" at level 5. I think a nice little Blood Sorcery update would include a sample of Koldunism- Tzimisce specific rituals and discipline powers. The future of any structured Sabbat might be Tzimisce-centered; emphasizing the general inhumanity of that clan, and by extension, the inhumanity of the Sabbat. I think there will of course, be room for other Sabbat factions. I'm just suggesting that the Tzimisce will have a greater role to play, now that the Friends of the Night decided the night is a lot more friendlier with the Camarilla.

  • #2
    I agree that it'll most likely be Protean; CbN mentions a Torrie learning Protean from a Tzimisce. Monstrosity-form seems reasonable for a dot-four power, on par with Metamorphosis, for the characters who are more focused on combat forms than utility powers. And Feral Weapons could easily be reflavored to "reshaping your bones into claws" and stuff like that, if they make it more open-ended ("yeah Gangrel generally just do claws, but you can also use this power for X, Y, Z, or other things, with ST approval").

    As far as Koldunism, though, I'm expecting it to be a loresheet, possibly tied to alternate Protean powers. The two clans with the strongest non-blood-based (and non-necromantic) magical traditions were the Tzimisce and the Ministry, and both have Protean; if their magic reappears, I expect it to be tied to Protean rather than to out-of-clan Blood Sorcery.

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    • #3
      I think the Tzimisce should have Blood Sorcery instead of Auspex as it means with Protean, Blood Sorcery, and Animalism that they are more properly the Dracula Clan.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #4
        we just got rid of the main source of troublesome blood sorcery, let's not fuck things up now


        -

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
          we just got rid of the main source of troublesome blood sorcery, let's not fuck things up now
          I think that ship has sailed since the Assamites have gone from a group that kind of practices Blood Sorcery to a group that REALLY practices Blood Sorcery.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #6
            I’m on board with giving Tzimisce traditional Protean over Vicissitude. Earthmeld and turning into a wolf and bat fit great with the clan, especially the Dracula aspects of the lore.

            Vicissitude is a great Discipline, but I don’t see a way to effectively combine it with Protean without sacrificing too much of either Discipline. Protean already has issues with the separation of Wolf and Bat forms now. Trying to smoosh Flesh- and Bonecrafting into the mix, not to mention Zulo and Bloodform, leaves the selection feeling too piecemeal, especially for players who like both Disciplines.

            I would have instead moved the ”Wamphiri” body mod stuff to a Sorcery Path (or rituals thereof) and not muddy the Protean waters further.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Garygeneric View Post
              I’m on board with giving Tzimisce traditional Protean over Vicissitude. Earthmeld and turning into a wolf and bat fit great with the clan, especially the Dracula aspects of the lore.

              Vicissitude is a great Discipline, but I don’t see a way to effectively combine it with Protean without sacrificing too much of either Discipline. Protean already has issues with the separation of Wolf and Bat forms now. Trying to smoosh Flesh- and Bonecrafting into the mix, not to mention Zulo and Bloodform, leaves the selection feeling too piecemeal, especially for players who like both Disciplines.

              I would have instead moved the ”Wamphiri” body mod stuff to a Sorcery Path (or rituals thereof) and not muddy the Protean waters further.
              I think you could do it as a Combo Discipline of Blood Sorcery and Protean.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • #8
                This is likely to happen, but I'm not a fan of it. I'd rather see an approach similar to mine that wraps up other body horror stuff into Vicissitude to help reduce other side Disciplines. Much like I did taking Sanguinis from the Blood Brothers and mashed it back into Vicissitude, then split some of the merge stuff with Fortitude Amalgams (locking to the Brothers) and fleshshaping to Auspex (locking to Tzimisce).


                -Red
                V20 Content: Age & Potency
                V5 Content: The Masquerade, Tzimisce and Vicissitude, Loresheet: Chicago, Resonance Flavor, Morality System
                Brand Manager, Developer at Hunters Entertainment

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                • #9
                  Protean, Blood Sorcery and either Auspex or Animalism (can't pick which one) make sense as Tzimisce Disciplines in V5. I think any self-altering powers that can be made quickly like Malleable Visage (which lvl would be appropriate, 3?), Bone Talons (lvl 2), Body Armory (lvl 3), Horrid Form (lvl 4), Chiropteran Marauder (lvl 5) make sense as Protean powers. Blood Form, Blood of Acid, etc make sense as Blood Sorcery Powers (both probably at lvl 5). And Bone/Flesh-crafting, Create the Vozhd, and any more extensive body alteration to others, or radical self-alterations, make sense as Blood Sorcery Rituals. Koldunism also makes sense as Blood Sorcery Rituals, perhaps with a Loresheet?

                  I'm just not sure if the third Discipline should be Auspex, Animalism, or perhaps Dominate?

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                  • #10
                    I never liked Viccisitude as a Discipline, and didn't see how a Necroscope style vampire fit in with the general modern/cinematic depiction of vampires the other clans are based on, I switched that out for Protean in my own chronicles many years ago. I think it would be the best fit for them.

                    Incidentally, I have no problem with that power (Discipline wise) or Necroscope style stuff as the basis for an enemy in Werewolf! It fits better with them than with the Kindred. So some form of that is in my version of the setting. It's just a lot less in numbers. I also have a variety of other non-Kindred "vampires" that fit in with folklore I like, but which also doesn't match the Kindred paradigm. In my VtM games, the Kindred know these other "vampires" exist in legend, but don't accept them into their society and treat them worse than Caitiffs or as outright enemies if they encounter them.

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                    • #11
                      In the pag. 196 of Chicago by Night 5th edition there's a mention about the character Erzulie using "powers of Protean" that she get drinking the blood of her Tzimisce lover and she uses that powers for molding her figure.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Magus View Post
                        In the pag. 196 of Chicago by Night 5th edition there's a mention about the character Erzulie using "powers of Protean" that she get drinking the blood of her Tzimisce lover and she uses that powers for molding her figure.
                        She’s listed as having Protean 3, but with no indication on what each level entails. Are they combining Vicissitude 1-3 into an alternate Protean 3 power, or does she maybe have Malleabe Visage as a lvl 1 option with traditional Protean 2 and 3?

                        Splitting the two animal forms into two separate powers means you already have to give up either Earthmeld, “Flight” Form or Mist form. Can’t have all three anymore. What other traditional Protean abilities will new, alternate Vicissitude abilities be exclusive with?

                        We can only wait and see, I suppose.
                        Last edited by Garygeneric; 08-29-2019, 11:58 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                          didn't see how a Necroscope style vampire fit in with the general modern/cinematic depiction of vampires the other clans are based on,
                          So? Why is the Anne Rice inspired stuff sacred? Personally, I prefer Necroscope Wamphyri, and houserule other types to fit in with them, not the other way around.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post

                            So? Why is the Anne Rice inspired stuff sacred? Personally, I prefer Necroscope Wamphyri, and houserule other types to fit in with them, not the other way around.
                            My issue is that I love Necroscope vampires but they're alien, inhuman, and monstrous when vampire the Masquerade is about keeping your humanity in the face of a dreadful curse.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post
                              So? Why is the Anne Rice inspired stuff sacred? Personally, I prefer Necroscope Wamphyri, and houserule other types to fit in with them, not the other way around.
                              Play the type of game you want to play. It is fine by me if you like Necroscope style stuff. But it is not for me. And the friends I play are along the same lines.

                              However, I feel Anne Rice style vampires are recognizably vampires. They fit fairly well with the other depictions of vampires I knew of - Dracula, Fright Night, Hammer Horror, Innocent Blood, Lost Boys, The Hunger, and lots of other books and movies. The Necroscope stuff, not so much. I actually had no idea where the game got this strange Viccisitude stuff until many, many years later when I learned it was derived from Necroscope.

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