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[V5] Tzimisce Signature Discipline

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  • #16
    In my head canon that I've been working up, and with some suggestions from various posts on the forums here, I have Dracula and perhaps a few other Kolduns performing a ritual that separates Vicissitude from anything it is connected to. It ends up only working on a portion of the world, and so the freed Tzimisce subtly retreat from the Sabbat and join the Anarch movement. These Tzimisce have Animalism, Dominate and Protean, as they look to become masters of themselves and their surroundings.

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    • #17
      I notice in a lot of discussions concerning Tzimisce Clan Discipline set suggestions for V5 that Auspex is often left off.

      My opinion is that Auspex is probably the most defining Discipline Tzimisce have, especially when you consider that Tzimisce (a clan founded by a supposedly great seer) are the most territorial, not to mention some of the most obsessively controlling, vampire clans. Auspex would allow them to survey and control their entire domain without ever having to leave the safety of their fortified manses and meatshields. It's the internet of Disciplines.

      As far as Old Clan Tzimisce, I can't think of anything better for them than their standard Animalism, Auspex and Dominate. It's an unbeatable set for a master of large domains, for a master of myriad ghouls and servants both man and beast, and especially for a master who never wants or needs to leave its hidey-hole like the "bloated spiders" they are.

      Of course, this had nothing to do with the topic of Vicissitude and Protean...just typing some thoughts.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Garygeneric View Post
        I notice in a lot of discussions concerning Tzimisce Clan Discipline set suggestions for V5 that Auspex is often left off.

        My opinion is that Auspex is probably the most defining Discipline Tzimisce have, especially when you consider that Tzimisce (a clan founded by a supposedly great seer) are the most territorial, not to mention some of the most obsessively controlling, vampire clans. Auspex would allow them to survey and control their entire domain without ever having to leave the safety of their fortified manses and meatshields. It's the internet of Disciplines.

        As far as Old Clan Tzimisce, I can't think of anything better for them than their standard Animalism, Auspex and Dominate. It's an unbeatable set for a master of large domains, for a master of myriad ghouls and servants both man and beast, and especially for a master who never wants or needs to leave its hidey-hole like the "bloated spiders" they are.

        Of course, this had nothing to do with the topic of Vicissitude and Protean...just typing some thoughts.
        For me, it's the question of, "How does this Discipline help you play Dracula?" Because Dracula is the defining figure I think of as a Tzimisce and honestly feel like they should double down on Dracula and pull back on Necroscope. Dracula is famous for Mind-Control, Shapeshifting, and doing a shit ton of black magic (he studied at the Scholomance). Auspex is a psychic ability that works very well for Anne Rice vampires (who are psychic), Malkavians, and Tremere but it's one of the ones most off from a traditional vampire.

        YMMV.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          For me, it's the question of, "How does this Discipline help you play Dracula?" Because Dracula is the defining figure I think of as a Tzimisce and honestly feel like they should double down on Dracula and pull back on Necroscope. Dracula is famous for Mind-Control, Shapeshifting, and doing a shit ton of black magic (he studied at the Scholomance). Auspex is a psychic ability that works very well for Anne Rice vampires (who are psychic), Malkavians, and Tremere but it's one of the ones most off from a traditional vampire.

          YMMV.

          Dracula has a psychic connection with Mina and his brides.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
            I never liked Viccisitude as a Discipline, and didn't see how a Necroscope style vampire fit in with the general modern/cinematic depiction of vampires the other clans are based on
            Remember that the Tzimisce pride themselves on being the (allegedly) oldest of the clans. And the modern day depictions of vampirism is far from how the ancient cultures imagined these creatures. Vampires were supposed to be creatures of TERROR, not romance, and many cultures all over the world had different ways of portraying that in their legends. From disembodied heads with trailing organs of the Philippines, to the Nosferatu of Greece's sewer systems, to the bulbous headed, bug eyed monstrosities of Africa, to the gigantic man-bats of the Aztecs... these are only a few examples that come to mind from what I can remember about the vampire mythos.

            Honestly, portraying the other 12 clans as almost completely human looking is far less appropriate to the lore than anything the Tzimisce are guilty of.

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            • #21
              Nyrufa, I explicitly said modern/cinematic, not folklore. And all those bizarre folklore style vampires aren't Necroscope style vampires, even if they are monstrous looking. Necroscope style vampires have a lot more baggage with them.

              As for folklore vampires, I even explained I did include other kinds of vampires, but not as Kindred/Cainites.

              Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
              I also have a variety of other non-Kindred "vampires" that fit in with folklore I like, but which also doesn't match the Kindred paradigm. In my VtM games, the Kindred know these other "vampires" exist in legend, but don't accept them into their society and treat them worse than Caitiffs or as outright enemies if they encounter them.
              I find the rules for Fomori, Wraiths, mortals with Numina, and other mechanics fit them better than the Clans.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                For me, it's the question of, "How does this Discipline help you play Dracula?" Because Dracula is the defining figure I think of as a Tzimisce and honestly feel like they should double down on Dracula and pull back on Necroscope. Dracula is famous for Mind-Control, Shapeshifting, and doing a shit ton of black magic (he studied at the Scholomance). Auspex is a psychic ability that works very well for Anne Rice vampires (who are psychic), Malkavians, and Tremere but it's one of the ones most off from a traditional vampire.

                YMMV.
                Aren't western pop culture vampires in general based on Dracula, including Anne Rice vampires? So does there really need to be a dedicated Dracula clan?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Spencer from The Hills View Post

                  Aren't western pop culture vampires in general based on Dracula, including Anne Rice vampires? So does there really need to be a dedicated Dracula clan?

                  They used to be, but their powers and weaknesses have been gradually nerfed / phased out over the decades. At this point, they're barely more than undead humans with super strength, speed and hypnotic gazes. Everything else that made vampires mighty, such as shapeshifting, controlling the elements, phasing through solid matter, subjugating other monsters (including Werewolves, btw), all of that is chalked up to being "just a myth."

                  No idea where the whole Vampires and Werewolves being rivals bit came into the picture. When I think about the two classical mythos, a Vampire should easily be able to stomp a Werewolf. There's nothing the Werewolf is capable of, that the Vampire isn't also capable of, plus the Vampire has additional powers on top of those.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                    No idea where the whole Vampires and Werewolves being rivals bit came into the picture. When I think about the two classical mythos, a Vampire should easily be able to stomp a Werewolf. There's nothing the Werewolf is capable of, that the Vampire isn't also capable of, plus the Vampire has additional powers on top of those.
                    I think this rivalry is specifically a White Wolf invention, actually. (Though I could be wrong on that.) Traditionally, there was a whole lot of overlap between vampires and werewolves: consider how they both turn into wolves, both lose control of themselves (frenzy/death rage) and hurt everyone around them, both are fundamentally "humans but cursed". I can't think of any folklore that had them being entirely separate races.

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                    • #25
                      Like Oblivion merged Obtenebration and Necromancy as part of the same source of power, so Protean ad Sepentis were recognised as the same Discipline that allows shapeshifting.

                      Vicissitude basically allows the same abilities. You can grow spikes from your limbs, you can change into another creature, you can even change the very state of matter of your body (fog or blood)

                      Of course, you coundn't grow additional arms, eyes, heads and become an unliving masquerade breacher. So what?

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                      • #26
                        Lon Chaney’s sympathetic Wolf Man character fought Dracula a couple of times toward the end of Universal’s original run of monster movies, when they were trying to squeeze the last few pennies out of the franchises by doing crossovers. See “House of Dracula” and “Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein.”

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Riccardo View Post
                          Like Oblivion merged Obtenebration and Necromancy as part of the same source of power, so Protean ad Sepentis were recognised as the same Discipline that allows shapeshifting.

                          Vicissitude basically allows the same abilities. You can grow spikes from your limbs, you can change into another creature, you can even change the very state of matter of your body (fog or blood)

                          Of course, you coundn't grow additional arms, eyes, heads and become an unliving masquerade breacher. So what?
                          The disciplines are becoming more of archetypes than specific powersets, which is a very Requiem 2e thing, but V5 takes it even further than Requiem 2e does (and I like it a lot). Instead of "the discipline of turning into a snake" it's "the discipline of altering your physical form", and encompasses all sorts of physical changes, transformations, and metamorphoses.

                          So I wouldn't be surprised if Protean gained a "grow an additional arm" power, though I agree that it doesn't really need one.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Draconis View Post

                            The disciplines are becoming more of archetypes than specific powersets, which is a very Requiem 2e thing, but V5 takes it even further than Requiem 2e does (and I like it a lot). Instead of "the discipline of turning into a snake" it's "the discipline of altering your physical form", and encompasses all sorts of physical changes, transformations, and metamorphoses.

                            Indeed, it's rather silly to think that a vampire's shapeshifting abilities would stop at only taking on forms which already exist in nature. Since the entire concept of such an ability is supposed to be supernatural in origin. If the same power set can let you turn into animals, as well as merge with the soil beneath your feat, and convert your entire body mass into sentient mist, then why are John Carpenter style feats so ridiculous of an idea?

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