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[V20] Blood Contract terms

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  • [V20] Blood Contract terms

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    Last edited by Miami-Ken; 09-16-2019, 01:55 PM.

  • #2
    I would lay down what kind of enforcement the Blood Contract has.
    Some Contracts summon demons, some make the signant bleed blood points or take damage until they comply, yet others cause thousands of cockroaches to follow the victim around.

    It would be very reductive to say "You can't break the contract" and leave it at that. No magic is that powerful...


    Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think that the Blood Contract can prevent someone's using telepathy. Being subject to telepathy in that sense is pretty much passive; there's no "performance" for the signatory to the contract to breach. He's not *doing* anything.

      Likewise, I'm not sure it would prevent Dominate. Dominate might FORCE him to breach, but he'd still be in breach.

      I'd probably write something up like the following:

      ******

      I, {name}, childe of {sire}, of the clan {clan}, enter into this Agreement with the Kindred of the Aegis of my own free will and volition, in consideration of those secrets that may be revealed to me. Should I, in any way, for any reason, or at any time breach any of the covenants, warranties, or obligations of this Agreement, I understand that {consequences}. This Agreement is effective immediately upon execution. The following are material terms of this Agreement:

      1. I shall not reveal, cause to be revealed through me, or allow to be revealed through me where such revelation is in any way preventable, anything that is learned by me from or taught to me by the Kindred of the Aegis. The provisions of this Paragraph 1 shall survive the termination of this Agreement. I understand and acknowledge that even Final Death shall not release me from these obligations of confidentiality, and that my shade, soul, or surviving echo shall be similarly bound.

      2. I shall not employ, exercise, or use anything that is learned by me from or taught to me by the Kindred of the Aegis in any manner which is known, anticipated, or suspected by me to even potentially harm, impair, impede, frustrate, or otherwise act against the Kindred of the Aegis or their agents, interests, or assets.

      3. I shall not bring about, cause to be brought about, or allow to be brought about where efforts unlikely to result in my own Final Death would be sufficient to prevent the Final Death of any Kindred of the Aegis.

      4. I shall not act in any way to bring about circumstances or the acts of others which, if performed directly by me, would be in breach of this Agreement.

      5. With the exception of the provisions of Paragraph 1, the provisions of this Agreement shall expire upon sincere and truthful notice, caused to be delivered by me in writing to [name of some Kindred of the Aegis] or his or her successor, that I have indefinitely vacated the City of Miami (including all suburbs and exurbs stretching from Cutler Bay to Hollywood to Sweetwater and all points in between) with no plans to return, and divested myself of all properties, agents, assets, and other interests of any kind within that area.

      6. I recognize and understand that submission of a notice under Paragraph 5 that is not sincere and truthful in its entirety shall itself be a breach of this Agreement, and shall not operate to terminate this Agreement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Blood Oath -Compensation clause-
        If the terms established in this contract are broken by one part without malificent interference of another contractor or in a way that the contractual breaker hasn´t done everithing in his might to abide to his word then the dammified will have in his volition the power the make efective "one" and only "one" of the next compensations clause.
        1. Oathbreakers shall be blood bonded to his own words (The deal breaker get blood bonded at stage 2 to the damnified)
        2. Oathbreakers shall be blood hunted by his own blood (A blood dopelnagger of the oathbreaker is created to hunt the deal breaker with stats equal to him -2)
        3. Oathbreakers shall be know as liars and bear a mark like caine did (The deal breaker recives 1 agravated wound that cannot be regenerated and imposes a penalty of -2 to all social rolls)

        Yep , Blood contracts are a big deal in my games


        Hunger pool

        Comment


        • #5
          Don't know if you would have aces to it or are willing to invest in it, but V:tR has a “Blood Oath” system, detailed in the Invictus Covenant Book, that is pretty much supernatural enforced Blood Contracts.
          You might want to look at that for inspiration.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Legendre View Post
            I don't think that the Blood Contract can prevent someone's using telepathy. Being subject to telepathy in that sense is pretty much passive; there's no "performance" for the signatory to the contract to breach. He's not *doing* anything.

            Likewise, I'm not sure it would prevent Dominate. Dominate might FORCE him to breach, but he'd still be in breach.

            I'd probably write something up like the following:
            I gotta say, I really like what you did there. What strikes me, though, is that there's no scienter requirement. I think you avoid a lot of inequity if you sprinkle in some "knowingly", or "know or should know". You potentially get more litigation of terms down the line when determining whether any given party should have known that their potential actions would lead to a breach, but the fact is that if you don't put in an intent requirement, it becomes pretty onerous. Vampires are, by their very nature, shrewd and secretive--if some Kindred of the Aegis has a secret interest in (for instance) the Swap Shop, and one of the parties to the contract tries to ghoul one of the elephants there (for reasons), there's a breach, but it's not like they meant to perpetrate the breach, and I think, it potentially frustrates the purpose of the contract.

            Originally posted by Legendre View Post
            5. With the exception of the provisions of Paragraph 1, the provisions of this Agreement shall expire upon sincere and truthful notice, caused to be delivered by me in writing to [name of some Kindred of the Aegis] or his or her successor, that I have indefinitely vacated the City of Miami (including all suburbs and exurbs stretching from Cutler Bay to Hollywood to Sweetwater and all points in between) with no plans to return, and divested myself of all properties, agents, assets, and other interests of any kind within that area.

            6. I recognize and understand that submission of a notice under Paragraph 5 that is not sincere and truthful in its entirety shall itself be a breach of this Agreement, and shall not operate to terminate this Agreement.
            The issue here is that the terms of the contract are made a nullity if the party holding the physical/actual blood contract just tears it up. You could potentially put in a provision that prevents either party from tearing up the contract without the procedural formalities you wrote in above, butI could easily see a ST ruling that the baked-in provision of the power that voids the contract upon the destruction ultimately supersedes any attempt to write around it. Plus, if you game it out, it can get really messy out-of-game: at what point in the process of destroying the physical contract does the notice provision kick in to prevent the destruction of the contract? Is it when the intent is formed to do it? When the first substantial step is taken--and if so, what exactly constitutes the first substantial step in something so easy and banal as tearing up a piece of paper. At some point you start having to interrogate the player about when it was they decided to destroy the contract, and then having to retcon, potentially whole scenes, to make the demons (or whomever) show up to enforce the notice provision whenever the ST determines that the decision was ultimately made.

            What I do (as a player) to get around the issue of one party having unilateral control over whether the contact is in force is to insist upon multiple identical blood contracts being drafted and executed, therefore each party has a copy of the blood contract, and rescission either can't be unilateral (because even if you tear up your copy of the contract, you're still bound by the copy in my control and possession), or requires some kind of heist. It's more resource intensive, but let's face it, if you're executing a blood contract, you're dealing with pretty sophisticated individuals; going the extra mile is a mild inconvenience at best.

            Originally posted by Legendre View Post
            the City of Miami (including all suburbs and exurbs stretching from Cutler Bay to Hollywood to Sweetwater and all points in between)
            Oh, c'mon now, Hialeah be exempted. It's obviously a paradox realm made manifest on this side of the gauntlet by the collective frustration and disbelief felt by motorists transiting the Palmetto every day lol.
            Last edited by CaptOtter; 09-11-2019, 03:14 PM.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
              I gotta say, I really like what you did there.
              Well thank you. This really is just rattled off quickly, though -- it's probably good enough for an RPG but we could make this shit REALLY airtight if we wanted. (I'd probably want to get paid, though.) Among other things, drafting contracts is something I do professionally so I've got some tricks. Though it seems like you might have some training in that area, too.

              Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
              What strikes me, though, is that there's no scienter requirement. I think you avoid a lot of inequity if you sprinkle in some "knowingly", or "know or should know". You potentially get more litigation of terms down the line when determining whether any given party should have known that their potential actions would lead to a breach, but the fact is that if you don't put in an intent requirement, it becomes pretty onerous. Vampires are, by their very nature, shrewd and secretive--if some Kindred of the Aegis has a secret interest in (for instance) the Swap Shop, and one of the parties to the contract tries to ghoul one of the elephants there (for reasons), there's a breach, but it's not like they meant to perpetrate the breach, and I think, it potentially frustrates the purpose of the contract.
              Well I did put one in there for using their secrets against them. It's pretty broad, but it's definitely a scienter requirement. "... in any manner which is known, anticipated, or suspected by me to even potentially harm, impair, impede, frustrate, or otherwise act against the Kindred of the Aegis or their agents, interests, or assets."

              No reason you couldn't import that into the other provisions if you wanted. I think it's probably not needed in most, but I definitely think on reflection that #4 should probably have some sort of intent requirement.

              Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
              The issue here is that the terms of the contract are made a nullity if the party holding the physical/actual blood contract just tears it up.
              Well there's two issues there.

              In terms of termination, the termination clause just gives the party who ISN'T in possession of the contract (assuming the Kindred of the Aegis keep their contracts) the power to terminate. THe party in possession of the contract can still tear it up.

              But tearing it up should probably be thought of as more in the nature of rescission than termination -- avoidance a initio.

              But if the contract is just terminated through operation of its own provisions, there's no reason Paragraph's 1 NDA requirements couldn't survive.


              Originally posted by CaptOtter View Post
              Oh, c'mon now, Hialeah be exempted. It's obviously a paradox realm made manifest on this side of the gauntlet by the collective frustration and disbelief felt by motorists transiting the Palmetto every day lol.
              I haven't lived in Florida for a very long time -- and when I did it was up in Volusia. I'll take your word for it.

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