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Theoretical question about the Fallout Universe and Vampire: The Masquerade

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  • Theoretical question about the Fallout Universe and Vampire: The Masquerade

    I got a question about a few things that have been mulling over my mind. How would the Vampires adapt to the Fallout Universe? Would it be more easier for them to survive since kine society is more nebulous and anarchic? Would it be like the Dark Ages again where they semi-openly ruled like last time? Or would they be more on the ropes due to Laser Rifles being a common weapon wastelanders can use (most damning being Plasma based Weaponry)? Also what new Sects will emerge in the new wasteland? I doubt the Camarilla would be needed anymore since mankind has lost any real organisation (besides the NCR or more dubiously the Legion) so the justification of the Sect to ensure Vampiric society isn't exposed is kinda moot now.

    Sure the Hunters would still be around, they wouldn't be as organized as the Society of Leopold or other organizations Pre-War. Also how do you think Vampires could survive in the Vaults? The other dwellers would begin noticing that a few of the population never die of old age and look the same as they first stepped in. Realistically I'd think only Nosferatu can pull it off as they are the masters of underground stealth and subterfuge. Other clans.. I don't know. What do you think?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
    I got a question about a few things that have been mulling over my mind. How would the Vampires adapt to the Fallout Universe? Would it be more easier for them to survive since kine society is more nebulous and anarchic? Would it be like the Dark Ages again where they semi-openly ruled like last time? Or would they be more on the ropes due to Laser Rifles being a common weapon wastelanders can use (most damning being Plasma based Weaponry)? Also what new Sects will emerge in the new wasteland? I doubt the Camarilla would be needed anymore since mankind has lost any real organisation (besides the NCR or more dubiously the Legion) so the justification of the Sect to ensure Vampiric society isn't exposed is kinda moot now.

    Sure the Hunters would still be around, they wouldn't be as organized as the Society of Leopold or other organizations Pre-War. Also how do you think Vampires could survive in the Vaults? The other dwellers would begin noticing that a few of the population never die of old age and look the same as they first stepped in. Realistically I'd think only Nosferatu can pull it off as they are the masters of underground stealth and subterfuge. Other clans.. I don't know. What do you think?
    They would probably become gangs of Raiders.

    In Fallout 3, a gang of Raiders become protectors of a small community in exchange for Blood Packs. It's called Arefu.

    The lack of food and poisoning of the blood would be the big dangers there.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      This may get a little long, cause I've actually run a few V20 games in the Fallout universe, but I'll present one potential avenue to go down in terms of presentation.

      The Sabbat would thrive in the Wasteland. With a culture of brutality and possessing a remarkable degree of callousness toward the Kine (they are meant to be the monsters, after all) they would get onboard with the raider culture which is prevalent through much of wasteland humanity. They may even have a boom in numbers - all they'd have to do is spin "the Antediluvians made their pawns blow up the world" even if they had precisely zero evidence for it and so many disgruntled wastelanders given the Embrace would probably flock to it just to blow off steam.

      The Sabbat may also be behind the pandemic of FEV that has become prevalent in so many places if you have it that FEV was secretly reverse-engineered through pseudoscientific means from Tzimisce blood to harness that sweet sweet Vicissitude. But with FEV being a pre-war invention, it may be a case of the Sabbat were behind it prior to the Great War but now they can't control it because the corporation which allowed them to do so got blasted into rubble with the rest of the world.

      The Camarilla, at its core, was motivated by the survival of the Kindred race. Its foundation and the Masquerade were a means for that. So with the continued impetus of Kindred survival in the post-apocalyptic world, not to mention wanting to keep the Masquerade up so that wastelanders wouldn't learn of vampires then think they are to blame for the way the world is and go on great pogroms against the Children of Caine, they would most definitely still be around.

      Of course, I could see the various conflicts of the wasteland between major factions being the fault of the mercurial motives of Sects digging their claws in. During the time of Fallout 2, the Camarilla might have been behind the Enclave so that their Ventrue leadership could smokescreen wanting to wipe out the irradiated "mutant" wastelanders they wouldn't feed on, and then they ended up at loggerheads with the remnants of the Anarch Free States controlling the growing NCR. Fastforward a few decades and skip across the country and you could find a black ops group of Banu Haqim within the Arthur Maxson's Brotherhood of Steel whose purpose is to kill any raider gang who are working for the Sabbat over that abuse of technology, because the Camarilla can't ensure their own survival if the Sabbat's raider gangs monopolise their food.

      But if you want new Sects to pop up, consider having Kindred mockeries of certain mortal factions. There may be a Sect of supermutant Kindred with their Ghouled pet Deathclaws, a Kindred cult which preaches that vampirism is simply another part of Atom's Gift, and maybe even in certain city ruins a Sect of Kindred who believe in hunting and killing all Kuei-Jin for (they believe) intentionally causing the Great War to destroy America.

      As for hunters: always going to be a thing. If you're running on V5, the Second Inquisition is extremely unlikely to be a thing because of the loss of the infrastructure and national allowances which enabled them to prosper in the early 21st century, but there's still going to be small hunter presences around the place.

      And on the topic of vampires in Vaults, any Kindred could pull off surviving in a Vault long-term provided they have the skillset. I imagine a handful of Vaults likely would have become the Domains of Ventrue who basically took control of the leaders with powers of the blood. Hell, I could see a few ultra-rich Ventrue having actually paid a huge sum of money to Vault-Tec in return for being allowed to run them once the bombs fell. A population that only you control that you can shape to perfectly fit your feeding restriction so you can live it up like a King.

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      • #4
        A ghouled pet Deathclaw holy fuck


        The Final Frontier

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        • #5
          The tricky thing is the question of the Veil in such a setting. With everything being nuked, it would make the shadowlands of the world much more populated, any clan with Necromancy would be probably be in a much better position than normal clans. Especially if part of the Necromancy involves being able to consume wraiths, which means the food supply restriction is completely different. This focus on Necromancy would also make those clans and bloodlines the keepers of most technological and historical knowledge.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Thoth View Post
            The tricky thing is the question of the Veil in such a setting. With everything being nuked, it would make the shadowlands of the world much more populated, any clan with Necromancy would be probably be in a much better position than normal clans. Especially if part of the Necromancy involves being able to consume wraiths, which means the food supply restriction is completely different. This focus on Necromancy would also make those clans and bloodlines the keepers of most technological and historical knowledge.
            I'm inclined to think that any mass disaster means poor things for Necromancers, contrary to what the Giovanni think. Most ghosts would be uncontrollable malevolent specters and have plenty of backup.

            As one PC explained to a Giovanni. "So, your plan is to take over the world by unleashing a flood of people you can control some of but not all, who will hate you above all other things?"


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Fat Larry View Post
              A ghouled pet Deathclaw holy fuck
              The only thing worse than that is the Supermutant Kindred who can turn into a deathclaw with Protean. That's no bueno.

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              • #8
                We don't really need to discuss the topic inside the context of another IP, especially when one of the published Gehenna scenarios specifically deals with a WWIII/post-apocalyptic situation where humankind has essentially been reduced to a new dark age.

                And, as in that scenario, the situation is almost certainly too individualized to make distinctions beyond the most basic and logical. A Brujah locked in a civil defense shelter with a large human population is equally likely to, over decades, transform that population into a crazed group of brainwashed raiders as they are a highly organized, competent, military force for "liberating" the wastes once the shelter opens...assuming they don't first frenzy and murder the population to the point of genetic non-viability, the humans get it first, or both.

                Certainly, Ventrue are going to look to stack shelters with "their type". Setites are going to do the same, except not out of necessity but out of desire to turn the whole thing into a giant cult. But, honestly, I find such an hypothetical scenario perfect grounds to explore the unexpected, otherwise unlikely, and never before thought possible.

                Like, for example, let's assume the bombs fall and a mortal population make their way to a bomb shelter...that also contains a Sabbat pack. The Sabbat vampires are no longer to pull their usual shit; there are no Cammies around, or Anarchs, Autarchs, suspected Inconnu, or even other Sabbat packs for that matter. They turn their fangs on the mortal population, but as the population dwindles survival instinct overrides the Vaulderie, and the pack turns on each other. The pack's Priest, a Tzimisce, ends up through wile, cunning, and luck the last vamp standing.

                Except, the Tzimisce now faces a real dilemma: in the pack's infighting, enough mortals died there's no longer a viable population...at least, not without very careful, very deliberate, genetic curation over the course of decades. At this point, if they survived this long, it's likely a simple, but not necessarily easy, matter for the Tzimisce to hide, start blood bonding, and/or make mortals forget and forgive past transgressions. It's the only way, because the Tzimisce isn't old or powerful enough to create a cathedral of flesh, and can't risk the mortals hunting and destroying it during daytime. And, curated and selectively bred herds are basically things Tzimisce are born to make.

                It also means our Tzimisce has to do something unbearably horrific to a Tzimisce in the first place, but especially if like most others in their position they're on a Path. They have to tend to mortals' welfare. Imagine being on the Path of Death and the Soul, the most common Tzimisce Path, and in this situation; simply doing what one must to survive, ensures one degenerates to the point of Wassail. And, in this situation, any course of action not in fundamental contradiction with their Path leads to Final Death, or torpor which in this circumstance is tantamount to it.

                Except, Tzimisce are superior. If nothing else, Tzimisce are monsters of will to power, and evolution to adapt and overcome in a chaotic world. Metamorphosis is part of existence, even if our Tzimisce doesn't adhere to that Path's tenets. Succumbing to Wassail isn't just yet another undesirable end indicative of a lost will to survive, it's just uncouth.

                That's all that preserves the Tzimisce's mind in their first few years as their adherence to their Path dwindles to nothing. Zeal turns to cold rationalization, rationalization gives way to fear and self doubt, fear and doubt turn to self-hatred, and self-hatred turns to destructive lashing out...then our Tzimisce just gives up. Holding onto that Path is no longer possible, and without tutors for any other, more viable Path, there's one alternative left: Humanity.

                To our Tzimisce's horror, they realize one night they care. Cold, detached selective breeding transforms into fostering a community. Bone and fleshcrafting to prevent needless loss of genetic variety becomes improving quality of life. Forcing mortals to stay cowed and ignorant through the blood bond and manipulation of memories and emotions, turns to education, philosophy, and advancing the little, isolated community through knowledge and common interest. Years turn to decades, and as the second and third generations are born, the shelter and its inhabitants are nothing like what entered.

                At some point, the outside environment's toxicity faded to the point of entertaining ventures outside. The Tzimisce was able to scout the outside world with astral projection, to find resources to bring back to the shelter. They were able to lure animals to it, for guard animals and livestock herds. A new generation of szlachta were created -- humanely created ones that still retain their mind, capacity to function in society, and semblance of humanity -- to scout, scavenge, and defend.

                The monster in the basement, is monster no longer. Surely, the "basement" part is likely still accurate, no proper Tzimisce would ever be caught Final Dead without at least some creepy, grandiose melodramatics, but by this point it's formality and ceremony, a quiet tribute to long-lost and well-rid violent and inhumane heritage. Our Tzimisce has fallen so far from grace, the idea of terrorizing or harming their community is unthinkable.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                  I'm inclined to think that any mass disaster means poor things for Necromancers, contrary to what the Giovanni think. Most ghosts would be uncontrollable malevolent specters and have plenty of backup.

                  As one PC explained to a Giovanni. "So, your plan is to take over the world by unleashing a flood of people you can control some of but not all, who will hate you above all other things?"
                  Oddly enough nuclear devastation doesn't seem to be that much of an issue for Necromancers.

                  The sections on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the Kindred of the East line refer to the day of the bombing playing out over and over in the shadowlands, that the chi lines in the area were forcibly rearranged and temporarily poisoned, and that the resulting ghosts were some what strange but not uncontrollable. Both Bone Flowers and Devil Tigers flocked to such areas for research and resource gathering.

                  Admittedly Kuei-jin are different from Cainites, they do tend to be more sensitive to such things and if they don't seem to have issues with it, a Kindred Necromancer most likely won't either. Alternatively a large scale nuking would probably make all the Kuei-jin switch to the Scorpion Eaters dharma, so rather than being restricted by such an environment, they would end up thriving in it.

                  Likewise in the W:tA setting, the Trinity test grounds are a Black Spiral Dancer hive with loads of bale fire, banes, and mutated spirits taking up residence along side the lupines. The BSD Shamans seem to function just fine with the local spirits.

                  The initial explosion would probably produce ghosts just like any other bomb blast victim killed at the instant of detonation. The tricky part is the residual radiation which creates such suffering and can theoretically poison the spiritual environment.

                  So depending on which game line and book you go with the results of nuclear war can be underwhelming.

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                  • #10
                    Wasn't the Sixth Maelstrom caused by the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings? It seems like the writers screwed up there.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                      Wasn't the Sixth Maelstrom caused by the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings? It seems like the writers screwed up there.
                      I thought the Sixth Maelstrom coincided with the Technocracy thermonuking the Shadow of Enoch.

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                      • #12
                        I think it would partly depend on what point in Fallout history you set this. The sooner after the nuclear annihilation that happened the harder things would be for vampires to survive given societies would be more fragmented, things would be more chaotic - fewer humans to prey off of, but also less organized resistance. Later in the series means humanity has recovered more, and likely more humans.. but also more organized resistance. Especially from certain factions. It would depend greatly on how many vampires you wanted to exist (although I should note the 1 per 100K the Camarilla preferred isn't necessarily the ideal. The Book of Nod IIRC suggested one vampire per 3 humans for example!)

                        As long as they travel at night (can find caves or other cover) and have lived long enough to develop their skills fairly well, a Vampire could thrive pretty well in Fallout. Energy weapons could be a concern (those are aggravated, I think?) As CtPhipps mentioned you could have a single vampire or small group acting as 'protectors' of settlements in exchange for blood. Or as Raiders (or leaders of raiding parties.) If we're talking later in time I could totally see groups of vampires insinuating themselves in various factions (especially the NCR, but Caesar's Legion is also possible, as is New Reno and others.)

                        One idea you could look for inspiration from is the Gehenna sourcebook, as they discuss a number of 'end of the world' scenarios where civilization starts breaking down and how that can impact vampires depending on the extent of breakdown.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                          Wasn't the Sixth Maelstrom caused by the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings? It seems like the writers screwed up there.

                          I believe that was the fifth. The Sixth was Week of Nightmares + another (relic) spirit nuke going off in the Shadowlands. I think that was a Technocracy plot too, but I can't remember for sure.

                          Edit: Nope, had nothing to do with Ravnos. One nuke was used by Stygia against Enoch it seems, whilst another was triggered in an experiment by a void engineer at about the same time. Although its possible Ravnos destruction didn't help matters either, given that involved about FIVE spirit nukes going off all at once, even if they were low yield neutron bombs.

                          Also I don't want to consider what the effects of a near-mass extinction event can do to the underworld, given what a relatively small number of kiloton-yield devices can do. Even if we assumed Fallout nuclear arsenals were equal to our own (reduced from Cold War era) ones, we're still talking tens of gigatons (1 kiloton = 1000 tons of TNT equivalent. 1 gigaton = 1 billion tons of TNT equivalent.)
                          Last edited by Mister_Dunpeal; 09-07-2019, 09:08 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mister_Dunpeal View Post
                            Even if we assumed Fallout nuclear arsenals were equal to our own (reduced from Cold War era) ones, we're still talking tens of gigatons (1 kiloton = 1000 tons of TNT equivalent. 1 gigaton = 1 billion tons of TNT equivalent.)
                            Well, if we're having the conversation, the comparison becomes a bit important for a couple key reasons. The Fallout universe had a far greater level of proliferation and raw numbers of devices, but devices on whole were much weaker and dirtier than the real world. Most, if I remember right, were sub-kiloton devices which means apart from epicenters and heavily-targeted areas -- military bases, urban cores, sites of strategic and symbolic importance -- most infrastructure would be left intact, if not heavily irradiated. The majority of people who died, didn't die to the explosions, but rather the effects of acute radiation sickness and exposure in the days following the exchange...which is a hell of a lot worse than an instantaneous, painless death to a thermal pulse or overpressure wave.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                              Well, if we're having the conversation, the comparison becomes a bit important for a couple key reasons. The Fallout universe had a far greater level of proliferation and raw numbers of devices, but devices on whole were much weaker and dirtier than the real world. Most, if I remember right, were sub-kiloton devices which means apart from epicenters and heavily-targeted areas -- military bases, urban cores, sites of strategic and symbolic importance -- most infrastructure would be left intact, if not heavily irradiated. The majority of people who died, didn't die to the explosions, but rather the effects of acute radiation sickness and exposure in the days following the exchange...which is a hell of a lot worse than an instantaneous, painless death to a thermal pulse or overpressure wave.
                              Mind you, the Fallout universe (at least the new games) are 50s in culture but actually closer to the 2050s with advanced robotics (lacking the computer chip), cybernetics, mecha, robots, and laser guns.

                              So a lot of stuff is "nuclear proofed."


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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