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  • #16
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    Yeah, I'm exactly the opposite.

    I have no interest in a game punishing me for playing a vampire. I'm interested in a game where I'm punished for being a MONSTER.

    Just play Humanity the way it should be, "Remove it for being an evil bastard."
    Well, according to the game designers, being a vampire IS being a monster. Which is why in V5 fhey made you always on the verge of frenzy, and having to feed every single night. As opposed to VtM where you could be a superhero with fangs.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Illuminostro View Post

      Well, according to the game designers, being a vampire IS being a monster. Which is why in V5 fhey made you always on the verge of frenzy, and having to feed every single night. As opposed to VtM where you could be a superhero with fangs.
      Yeah, the costs bring home the dangers.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Illuminostro View Post

        Well, according to the game designers, being a vampire IS being a monster. Which is why in V5 fhey made you always on the verge of frenzy, and having to feed every single night. As opposed to VtM where you could be a superhero with fangs.

        Except you don't have to feed every single night, anyway.

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        • #19
          I am not sure "The Beast I am least the Beast I become" is the designers saying that "vampire IS being a monster."

          It seems more that you have a monster that lives inside you and you have ot give into on occation or it will totally consume you.

          This is basically what the humanity system is, a slider on the the scale of human to beast.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Redwulfe View Post
            I am not sure "The Beast I am least the Beast I become" is the designers saying that "vampire IS being a monster."

            It seems more that you have a monster that lives inside you and you have ot give into on occation or it will totally consume you.

            This is basically what the humanity system is, a slider on the the scale of human to beast.
            "A monster I must be lest a monster I become."

            Basically, be bad but don't be evil.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #21
              Never heard the monster quote but had heard the Beast one several times so that is why I used it.

              All in all it is basically the same thing. little acts to stave off becoming fully Evil/Monster/Beast.

              The point I was trying to make that you arn't that from the get go. The designers arn't trying to make a game that is about "being" Evil/Monsters/Beasts it is about trying ot stave off becoming that permanently through smaller acts of evil.

              What I see from the humanity rules is that it is about riding the line between what you where, human, and what you could become, a Beast. The Humanity tracker lets me know where I am on this scale. Thus it being a slider from Human to Beast.

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              • #22
                Your first sin was playing v5 over VTM.

                For V20, I think you should encourage your players to declare their own humanity rolls, failing that you should ask them to justify what they just did (if they think they can) and ask them to roll with a modifier based on their excuse. What 'feels right' is usually better than going off a list. You should ask your players about your rulling; The GM's political opinions don't matter so much as a characters, so you should check your bias.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

                  I would argue that the lack of such a chart is a feature, not a bug.

                  The Humanity chart consists of:
                  • Roughly three chronicle Tenets which will cause stains if transgressed against. These are designed by the ST and players to be the general rules of the world. They can choose to emulate a genre, like Southern Gothic or Industrial Wasteland Punk, with characters who act out of genre being punished with stains. They can choose to have a Tenet that enforces being a moral and nice person, like "Thou shall not kill", which gives stains for being immoral by human standards. They can choose to have a Tenet that punishes acting too inhuman, like "Don't do anything a human couldn't do", which punishes biological inhumanity.
                  • Then there are Convictions. These are from one to three personal moral codes created for each pc, and tend to be quite idiosyncratic. You gain stains by transgressing against one of your Convictions, but can reduce Tenet stains if the Conviction and Tenet are in disagreement.
                  • There are various powers (like Oblivion) and actions (like ghouling and diablerie) sprinkled throughout the text of the books which cause stains on their own. It has not been made clear whether personal Convictions can be used to mitigate stains from these sources. (I would run it as allowed, but with caution.) It would be nice to have these all listed in one place, but "Value style over organization" is a Conviction of the V5 creators, it would seem.
                  So, no, there is not a pre-printed list of Tenets or Humanity "sins". You get to work that out with your players at the start of the chronicle. Yes, it is more work to build your own morality system, but at least you know it will be one you like working with, whether you think Humanity should be about "acting human" or "being moral".

                  If you really like the Humanity list of sins from V20&pre, just add the following chronicle Tenet. "Do not perform any action lower than your Humanity score, as listed in V20, p312". That would port in the old list of sins, just make certain all your players have a copy of it.

                  This sounds like it could make Paths of Enlightenment entirely unnecessary. I approve.

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