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We need to talk about Caine

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  • We need to talk about Caine

    So what explanation do you guys have for Caine being absent throughout pretty much the entire vampire history? It's like he never existed in the first place. Most of the ante's you can see their footsteps in history. They made their marks. Caine not so much. I find it hard to believe that he has just been quietly lurking in the shadows for the past 10,000 years. If he ever existed, he probably died a long time ago.

  • #2
    Originally posted by blackshade View Post
    So what explanation do you guys have for Caine being absent throughout pretty much the entire vampire history? It's like he never existed in the first place. Most of the ante's you can see their footsteps in history. They made their marks. Caine not so much. I find it hard to believe that he has just been quietly lurking in the shadows for the past 10,000 years. If he ever existed, he probably died a long time ago.
    Considering how rare accurate records going back more than a few thousand years are to find, for both Kine and Kindred, he was probably very active for the first few thousand years of his unlife. But then, like the Antediluvians, he decided it was time for sleep, but its the impact of the Antediluvians which take up the limelight because they're the ones who brought huge lineages into the world.

    Well, that and the Antediluvians decided to gang up on his kids. Caine probably didn't want to be holding up a huge sign saying "here be Caine" (figuratively speaking) and then have to worry about his treacherous grandkids constantly knowing where he was.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by blackshade View Post
      So what explanation do you guys have for Caine being absent throughout pretty much the entire vampire history? It's like he never existed in the first place. Most of the ante's you can see their footsteps in history. They made their marks. Caine not so much. I find it hard to believe that he has just been quietly lurking in the shadows for the past 10,000 years. If he ever existed, he probably died a long time ago.
      It's entirely up to you as the storyteller to decide what he's been doing, if anything at all, if he's even still alive or ever existed in the first place. As for leaving a mark in vampire history, he made vampires and gave (most) their signature weaknesses. I'd say that's a pretty damn big footprint. Besides, if the Antediluvians can stay largely out of commission due to insanely long Torpors, then why can't the same apply to their grandpa? After all, the ST can decide if the Antediluvians are real or not too.

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      • #4
        Pretty sure he is driving a cab in L.A.

        (someone was going to say it...)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by The Dreamweaver View Post

          It's entirely up to you as the storyteller to decide what he's been doing, if anything at all, if he's even still alive or ever existed in the first place. As for leaving a mark in vampire history, he made vampires and gave (most) their signature weaknesses. I'd say that's a pretty damn big footprint. Besides, if the Antediluvians can stay largely out of commission due to insanely long Torpors, then why can't the same apply to their grandpa? After all, the ST can decide if the Antediluvians are real or not too.
          He cursed them and all that. But that mythical story is just in the beginning of the story. He has been absent throughout the rest of it. Some of the ante's have been active as recent as the 15th century. i don't think their existence can be denied. Sure in your story it can but if you follow the metaplot they are real. Can you really say the same about Caine? Maybe you can, afterall he was there in the beginning but it just strikes me as odd that there is no mention of him anywhere after the fall of the first city.
          Last edited by blackshade; 09-17-2019, 05:36 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by blackshade View Post
            So what explanation do you guys have for Caine being absent throughout pretty much the entire vampire history? It's like he never existed in the first place. Most of the ante's you can see their footsteps in history. They made their marks. Caine not so much. I find it hard to believe that he has just been quietly lurking in the shadows for the past 10,000 years. If he ever existed, he probably died a long time ago.
            Well, the Vampire history goes back to 12000 years ago at least. Just because no one saw him since the Second City doesn't mean he has been away for the most of vampire history, it's just that vampire history is far older than history itself.
            Most modern vampires have never met Ur-Shulgi, Nergal or Baba Yaga, since they slept for millenia, and yet they live.

            Last time Absimiliard did something was in 5000 B.c, when he embraced Baba Yaga and fought with Koschey. Then silence for 7000, after that he pops out in modern times trying to nuke New York.

            Ravnos last sight was at the time of the Harappa civlization (2000 years before christ), then he disappeared for 4000 years before awakening in Northern India.

            Ennoia spent most of her life in torpor, she has disappeared from radars after the birth of Christ, and yet we know that she live.

            We know nothing of Ventrue after his "supposed death" at the time of the second city, and yet he did embraced Nefer-Meri-Isis, Eigermann, Antiorix and Alexander many years after the fall of the second city. But aside from who he did embrace we know nothing.

            Lasombra? Very active indeed, but can anyone here point what he did since the Lasombra diaspora of the 1600 b.c. to his "death" in 1414 ce?

            Haqim? Surely alive, and yet no one has seen him since 121 ce, and even before that time his visit at Alamut had become sporadic at best.


            About Tzimisce we know he has been active only because we have Lambach as a source. For any other vampire aside Lambach the Eldest went to sleep after the Baali war, in the monastery of Sernog, and slept there until his "death" at the time of the Anarch revolt. Only through Lambach you know about what lies under New York.

            Enoch has disappeared from history before Caine made his last act, and yet in BJD she was found in the desert.


            You know about Tzimisce because you can talk to Lambach (5th-4th gen), and you know about Haqim because you can talk to Al-Ashrad (5th gen), Ur-Shulgi and Mithras (4th). Maybe if one of the Antes was willing to give you an interview you would know more about what Caine is doing.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
              Last time Absimiliard did something was in 5000 B.c, when he embraced Baba Yaga and fought with Koschey. Then silence for 7000, after that he pops out in modern times trying to nuke New York.
              I know the Tzimisce-blob dwelling beneath New York was according to the Gehenna book for Revised meant to eat the city for dinner.

              But now I'm real curious where Absimiliard trying to go Manhattan Project on Manhattan is mentioned, cause I wanna read that shit.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
                I know the Tzimisce-blob dwelling beneath New York was according to the Gehenna book for Revised meant to eat the city for dinner.

                But now I'm real curious where Absimiliard trying to go Manhattan Project on Manhattan is mentioned, cause I wanna read that shit.

                it's at the end of Transylvania Chronicles 4 page 65 to 81. There is a whole adventure where the players try to stop a nuclear launch from Romania, orchestrated by Absimiliard. In doing so, they must free Kupala from it's binds.


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                  it's at the end of Transylvania Chronicles 4 page 65 to 81. There is a whole adventure where the players try to stop a nuclear launch from Romania, orchestrated by Absimiliard. In doing so, they must free Kupala from it's binds.
                  Me reading this: "Hmmm, that seems like fun to d--"

                  Sees mention of freeing Kupala.

                  My soul hurts...

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                  • #10
                    You can also check BJD, the chapter name Is "the price of hospitality"

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                    • #11
                      Caine is expressly stated to be alive, by an unreliable narrator, in BJD. Supposedly waking "Caine" is part of Saulot's plan - to what end is unstated. But assuming it is true, Caine exists in a situation where he can be awakened.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                        Enoch has disappeared from history before Caine made his last act, and yet in BJD she was found in the desert.
                        Well, it’s an optional scenario in chapter “the Omega”. Something in that coffin can also be Sutekh or ash, it’s just an option, can this be canon? Sorry but I’m not familiar with TRPG...

                        But from my own perspective I hope to see more stuff about this... 2nd gens are always ignored before.

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                        • #13
                          It's my headcanon that Caine has all Disciplines at 10.

                          All of them.

                          As well as several unique to him and whoever he deigned to teach them to in the intervening millennia.

                          Obfuscate 10, so he can walk anywhere he likes without being noticed or remembered. Dominate 10 to keep anyone from remembering him even if Obfuscate 10 somehow failed, as well as the ability to make anyone do anything and think it was their idea. Celerity (and Temporis) 10 to let him do anything faster than can be noticed, with extreme precision. Chimestry 10 so he can make anyone see what he wants them to see, and Dementation 10 and Presence 10 to make them feel what he wants them to feel. Auspex 10 so he can see anything coming and read anyone's minds.

                          Caine has Plot Device level in every vampiric power known to Kindred (and several unknown ones, probably). It's not a question of why he isn't known to be active. The question is what sorts of shenanigans has Caine been up to that no one knows about?


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                            Caine is expressly stated to be alive, by an unreliable narrator, in BJD. Supposedly waking "Caine" is part of Saulot's plan - to what end is unstated. But assuming it is true, Caine exists in a situation where he can be awakened.

                            yeah forgot about that. This atleast tells us that he is out there somewhere.

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                            • #15
                              The (unreliable) narrator of the Revised Edition's Setite Clanbook asserts that they've got elders old enough to remember when the Caine and Abel myth was made up. There's more than enough wiggle room for a Storyteller to adjust the truth to suit the story's needs.

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