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[V5] What are YOUR thoughts on ShreckNet?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
    Don't own any of the fluff books, so pretty much all of those subtle clan implications went over my head.
    The Ventrue were responsible for the NSA finding out about ShreckNet.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
      The Ventrue were responsible for the NSA finding out about ShreckNet.
      Ah, seems they have a nasty habit of conducting potentially masquerade shattering genocides on any clan who even dares to insinuate they might be their equals.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

        Ah, seems they have a nasty habit of conducting potentially masquerade shattering genocides on any clan who even dares to insinuate they might be their equals.
        They also have an incredibly nasty habit of doing the most unforgivable things and then hiding behind cries of "for the good of Kindred society!"

        Edit: I'm not sure about the genocide part, but there was the whole problem of Camarilla Princes leaking the identities of Anarch rivals to intelligence agencies until that backfired hard. And the large majority of Camarilla Princes are themselves Ventrue.
        Last edited by GilbyTheFat; 10-06-2019, 10:06 AM.

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        • #19
          I think there's a ton of plausible explanations as to how the NSA got access to Shreknet. Perhaps one of the most basic is that they arrested a ghoul whose vampire master left his Shreknet password on a stickynote attached to the computer. The ghoul saw it a few times and and then, while the NSA was waterboarding him, he flipped, told them about the network and gave them the password so they'd stop torturing him.
          Last edited by AnubisXy; 10-06-2019, 10:27 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
            I think there's a ton of plausible explanations as to how the NSA got access to Shreknet. Perhaps one of the most basic is that they arrested a ghoul whose vampire master left his Shreknet password on a stickynote attached to the computer. The ghoul saw it a few times and and then, while the NSA was waterboarding him, he flipped, told them about the network and gave them the password so they'd stop torturing him.
            Kindred need to stop making sanguineresonance1234 their password and then sticky-noting it to their monitors, I swear.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
              Be that as it may, the key to winning any war is information, and Schrecknet was the biggest cache of information regarding the the state of the world that Vampires had access to. It would have proven a vital component in the kindred managing to defend themselves against the threat of the SI. And perhaps even catapulted the Nosferatu to prominence as one of the High Clans.

              But no... let's destroy one of the most valuable resources we have, and blame the problem on the Anarchs.

              Fucking idiotic....
              Again, common sense varies.

              What IDIOTS keep ONLINE a bunch of information about a race that has the chief concern about making sure NO ONE KNOWS THEY EXIST. I mean, how much exactly did the Nosferatu accumulate that fell into the hands of their enemies? These things should be on private server rooms with no net access like in Mission Impossible.

              Mind you, here's how I imagine most vampires deal with things.

              ****

              NSA: Tell us everything you know about vampires or we'll burn you alive.

              Nosferatu: How about I give you the location of a bunch of other vampires in exchange for letting me go.

              NSA: Not good enough.

              Nosferatu: Okay, here's our internet database.

              ****

              I don't think much of vampire loyalty to each other. In my current game, the immediate response of every PC is to give the SI the locations of their enemies.
              Last edited by CTPhipps; 10-06-2019, 10:32 AM.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
                Kindred need to stop making sanguineresonance1234 their password and then sticky-noting it to their monitors, I swear.
                Yeah. I mean it might seem kind of silly but I'd expect there to be some Nosferatu who aren't as safe with their personal cybersecurity as they should be. Hell, even in real life there are members of the NSA and other organizations who absolutely should know better, who still do dumb shit like that or download obviously infected malware onto their computers. So I would assume that you'd have some Nosferatu who would do that kind of stuff too.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                  Nosferatu have one breach, and their response is to wipe everything, and dismantle the network? Let's hope a Niktuku doesn't head their way, now that they've effectively gouged out their own eyes and ears!
                  Assuming a Nictuku, or Absimiliard himself, wasn't actually responsible. "Old vampires don't informatics good" sounds cool, and works nicely when you're talking about elders who still have intellects within the human bell curve, but we're not talking about those. Not even in the same ZIP code as those. We're talking about the ancient fuckers who can be relied upon to have mental attributes of 7+ across the board if not higher, and Auspex and blood sorceries enough to act as a multiplier upon that. We're talking about a vampire whose pronunciation to the world it was awake, was a balls to the wall nuclear strike with full knowledge of what it was doing.

                  Also, there's the massive question of how the hell the SI even learned of Shrecknet's existence in the first place. The Nosferatu guarded that knowledge as closely as the Tremere guarded Thaumaturgy. Now I don't know anything about the Dark Web, but I believe it's not something that anybody in the world can just go to. I think it require special software to access. And Schrecknet is like a private Nosferatu version of the Dark Web.
                  In the V20 books, the Camarilla discovered SchreckNet after the Anarch bullshit in '08 and pressured the Nosferatu into allowing out-of-clanners to access it. It's not exactly one of the bits of newer fluff to which I'm cozy.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                    Assuming a Nictuku, or Absimiliard himself, wasn't actually responsible. "Old vampires don't informatics good" sounds cool, and works nicely when you're talking about elders who still have intellects within the human bell curve, but we're not talking about those. Not even in the same ZIP code as those. We're talking about the ancient fuckers who can be relied upon to have mental attributes of 7+ across the board if not higher, and Auspex and blood sorceries enough to act as a multiplier upon that. We're talking about a vampire whose pronunciation to the world it was awake, was a balls to the wall nuclear strike with full knowledge of what it was doing.
                    Y'know, if I didn't have Clan Ventrue being behind it in my game, I'd totally steal Absimiliard being responsible for the whole ShreckNet mess.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
                      Y'know, if I didn't have Clan Ventrue being behind it in my game, I'd totally steal Absimiliard being responsible for the whole ShreckNet mess.
                      I throw the entire V5 metaplot right out the window. The whole thing is laughably implausible, and honestly intellectually insulting, heads and shoulders above all the SI. You're telling me the Western intelligence community discovers the existence of a group of people who have managed to hide their existence for centuries, merely having been discovered by happenstance and luck, who have heretofore unparalleled and unimaginable ability to gather information and control populations. From there, they have a choice of siding with:

                      A. vampires, or

                      B. religious nutcases. Not just any religious nutcase, mind, but the way out there ones. Who represent the worst traits present in the one religion to consistently prove itself the biggest menace to humanity for two millennia. Who, worst of all, offer nothing of value in return.

                      And the class of professionals whose greatest hits include "playing Let's Make a Deal with literal Nazis", "overthrow a democratically-elected government to placate a fruit company", and "support extremist dictators who employ death squads and operated concentration camps", decides fuck vampires, It's Jesus Time.

                      No. Not just no, fuck no, and fuck you in particular to think I'm stupid enough to buy this dogshit in the first place. I spent the better part of a decade in university learning just how fucked up American foreign policy, and the role of the intelligence community in that fuckery, really is. That hypothetical meeting discussed earlier between a Nosferatu and NSA agents ends in approximately one way that doesn't irrevocably shatter suspension of disbelief: the Nosferatu walking out of the building five minutes later with a shit-eating grin and a stack of job applications to share with his friends.

                      The only way you can reconcile any of this, if it's down to a methuselah or higher being a dickhead. Again.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                        I throw the entire V5 metaplot right out the window. The whole thing is laughably implausible, and honestly intellectually insulting, heads and shoulders above all the SI. You're telling me the Western intelligence community discovers the existence of a group of people who have managed to hide their existence for centuries, merely having been discovered by happenstance and luck, who have heretofore unparalleled and unimaginable ability to gather information and control populations. From there, they have a choice of siding with:.
                        Do your game your own way but you find it more plausible that the people in charge of security for the United States and its immeasurable wealth can't find the enormous treasure trove of information run by people who still find the steam engine to be advanced technology?

                        Also, in what universe are vampires hypercompetant?

                        They have superpowers but have been repeatedly said to be behind the technological curve and also selfish assholes who will sell each other out at the drop of a hat.

                        B. religious nutcases. Not just any religious nutcase, mind, but the way out there ones. Who represent the worst traits present in the one religion to consistently prove itself the biggest menace to humanity for two millennia. Who, worst of all, offer nothing of value in return.
                        I'm going to do this to you again and I'm sorry, really, but...

                        "You find it hard to believe the United States government would arm religious extremists with advanced weapons to fight its enemies?"

                        *cough Afghanistan*

                        Last edited by CTPhipps; 10-06-2019, 11:56 AM.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          Do your game your own way but you find it more plausible that the people in charge of security for the United States and its immeasurable wealth can't find the enormous treasure trove of information run by people who still find the steam engine to be advanced technology?
                          I don't debate their discovery, I debate what's done with the discovery.

                          Also, in what universe are vampires hypercompetant?

                          They have superpowers but have been repeatedly said to be behind the technological curve...
                          Look back to what I said. That's true of elders. Methuselahs and Antediluvians are an entirely different ballgame. Case in point, the nuclear shenanigans of the very Antediluvian I named.

                          I mean, if you want a hard example supported by actual crunch and NPC stat blocks, and dates and figures, look at Helena. 3,500 years old, in and out of torpor for 600 years, missed the entire Industrial Revolution and woke up in 1990. Took her less than three years to overcome culture shock and adapt to the contemporary world to the point she can function in it just as easily as any neonate on the street. And compared to her contemporaries let alone her own elders, she is dumb as whale shit and barely has the capability to remain active in torpor.

                          "You find it hard to believe the United States government would arm religious extremists with advanced weapons to fight its enemies?"

                          *cough Afghanistan*
                          They had value to the US government at the time, as Cold War proxies. Then the Soviet Union collapsed, they lost their value, and we dropped them like a hot potato. Then they regained their value, as enemies.
                          Last edited by Theodrim; 10-06-2019, 12:16 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                            I throw the entire V5 metaplot right out the window. The whole thing is laughably implausible, and honestly intellectually insulting, heads and shoulders above all the SI. You're telling me the Western intelligence community discovers the existence of a group of people who have managed to hide their existence for centuries, merely having been discovered by happenstance and luck, who have heretofore unparalleled and unimaginable ability to gather information and control populations. From there, they have a choice of siding with:

                            A. vampires, or

                            B. religious nutcases. Not just any religious nutcase, mind, but the way out there ones. Who represent the worst traits present in the one religion to consistently prove itself the biggest menace to humanity for two millennia. Who, worst of all, offer nothing of value in return.

                            And the class of professionals whose greatest hits include "playing Let's Make a Deal with literal Nazis", "overthrow a democratically-elected government to placate a fruit company", and "support extremist dictators who employ death squads and operated concentration camps", decides fuck vampires, It's Jesus Time.

                            No. Not just no, fuck no, and fuck you in particular to think I'm stupid enough to buy this dogshit in the first place. I spent the better part of a decade in university learning just how fucked up American foreign policy, and the role of the intelligence community in that fuckery, really is. That hypothetical meeting discussed earlier between a Nosferatu and NSA agents ends in approximately one way that doesn't irrevocably shatter suspension of disbelief: the Nosferatu walking out of the building five minutes later with a shit-eating grin and a stack of job applications to share with his friends.

                            The only way you can reconcile any of this, if it's down to a methuselah or higher being a dickhead. Again.
                            Hell, it was already stretching it to suggest that Russian intelligence, who have spent decades actively trying to fuck with America, would cooperate with their biggest enemies in the American intelligence community because vampires (who have done immeasurably less damage to the world than actual mortal terrorists) exist. Not to mention the improbability of governments in South America cooperating with the United States after all the shit that went on during the 70s and 80s destabilising that region.

                            And then we're meant to believe that the world's sharpest minds in espionage just bend over and accept the word of the Vatican when they claim vampires are the biggest evil in the world (especially when the Vatican claim the messiah whose own word they can't even go five minutes without violating spake it)? Especially the South Americans, whose folk Catholicism has been called outright heresy by the Vatican? Nope.

                            The only explanation I have for the SI is that they're truly so off the reservation that being found out by their own governments is a worse fate than being one-upped by the vamps. Because I can guarantee a stint in Guantanamo for domestic terrorism makes enslavement by an Elder look like a goddamn trip to Disneyland.
                            Last edited by GilbyTheFat; 10-06-2019, 12:17 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                              So we're expected to believe that the SI just somehow managed to find out about the Nosferatu's most heavily guarded secret, and somehow managed to develop the software that would enable them to gain access to the system before the Nosferatu detected their attempt to break in? If my memory serves, Mitnik was a master hacker who managed to steal the nuclear missile activation codes. It took him 3 lap tops and who knows how many days of round the clock effort in order to break into a minor database. And Garry showed up on his doorstep within an hour of him pulling it off!
                              Well... yeah. You just said it yourself: A lone, if brilliant, hacker broke into Schrecknet. The breach was contained by him getting embraced.
                              So what's to keep others from pulling this off as well? Others who are sufficiently entwined in the national security apparatus that embracing or killing them was not an option, and who made enough backups that mindwiping didn't accomplish anything either.

                              And when you know your system is compromised, shutting it down would be the first response of every security expert. Ideally to rebuild it in a safer way, but I can quite understand that was politically untenable. After all, as long as the Nosferatu kept SchreckNet for themselves only, it has very little benefit for other clans, but, as just demonstrated, a massive potential to do harm.

                              GilbyTheFat
                              I think you're underestimating the pragmatism of those involved. If you can't let go of grudges and work with allies of momentary convenience right before you turn on them again, I don't think the intelligence business is right for you. The SI is held together barely by a common goal. They share relatively little intel because everyone expects everyone else to betray them at some point, which is one of the few hope spots the kindred have.
                              Last edited by Cifer; 10-06-2019, 12:52 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
                                They had value to the US government at the time, as Cold War proxies. Then the Soviet Union collapsed, they lost their value, and we dropped them like a hot potato. Then they regained their value, as enemies.
                                Basically, that's how I see the Society of Leopold. Vampires represent a threat to the government of every world so their destruction is a matter of both xenophobia as well as fear of losing control.

                                Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
                                Hell, it was already stretching it to suggest that Russian intelligence, who have spent decades actively trying to fuck with America, would cooperate with their biggest enemies in the American intelligence community because vampires (who have done immeasurably less damage to the world than actual mortal terrorists) exist. Not to mention the improbability of governments in South America cooperating with the United States after all the shit that went on during the 70s and 80s destabilising that region.

                                And then we're meant to believe that the world's sharpest minds in espionage just bend over and accept the word of the Vatican when they claim vampires are the biggest evil in the world (especially when the Vatican claim the messiah whose own word they can't even go five minutes without violating spake it)? Especially the South Americans, whose folk Catholicism has been called outright heresy by the Vatican? Nope.

                                The only explanation I have for the SI is that they're truly so off the reservation that being found out by their own governments is a worse fate than being one-upped by the vamps. Because I can guarantee a stint in Guantanamo for domestic terrorism makes enslavement by an Elder look like a goddamn trip to Disneyland.
                                Vampires are different.

                                They'll all be killed because of that. If they weren't actively feeding off human blood and controlling humans as slaves plus regularly engaged in massive cover-ups, the entire world would purge them simply because they're not human. No human with power would ever accept a rival to that power that threatens them with no benefit and no vampire would ever work with humans instead of above them.


                                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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