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[V5] What are YOUR thoughts on ShreckNet?

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  • GilbyTheFat
    started a topic [V5] What are YOUR thoughts on ShreckNet?

    [V5] What are YOUR thoughts on ShreckNet?

    So, the whole ShreckNet breach that happened at the hands of the NSA in 2004 in V5 has me wondering how everyone sees it.

    The main reason its a curiosity for me is because its been previously established that Clan Nosferatu are the best of the best in the world when it comes to hacking and digital warfare,and that ShreckNet was meant to be so colossally difficult to breach that even an Ancilla Tremere master hacker with the Thaumaturgical Path of Technology and a whole bunch of fancy complimentary rituals couldn't pull it off...

    ...and yet one human intelligence agency without supernatural advantages, that the Nosferatu would have without a doubt been watching like hawks (and therefore have seen the breach coming from a mile away), managed to breach the system and suddenly the Kindred world acts like ShreckNet is nothing more than an unsecured windows PC operated by an octogenarian who doesn't know what an antivirus is?

    Makes me think there's only two choices to explain it here:
    1. There's a lot more to the story that the Nosferatu aren't telling us.
    2. White-Wolf didn't want to put effort into devising a credible and at-all-plausible explanation for the start of the Second Inquisition.
    Seeing as I quite enjoy V5, I'm choosing to believe that its a case of 1 and not 2. But I am wondering how it is that you all look at it - do you take it at face value? Is there some deeper thing going on with it in your games? Have you or your STs simply scrapped the breach and gone with a plausible explanation for the origins of the SI?

  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    The idea that it would be difficult (online) to tell some human basement dwelling redpill type from a Nosferatu is amusing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reasor
    replied
    Originally posted by Illuminostro View Post
    Where was it ever stated the Nosferatu were the smartest and best hackers in the world?
    Right. The Nosferatu were basically just the first vampires to bother with the Internet at all, because they weren't invited to the sexy parties.

    Leave a comment:


  • Illuminostro
    replied
    Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
    So, the whole ShreckNet breach that happened at the hands of the NSA in 2004 in V5 has me wondering how everyone sees it.

    The main reason its a curiosity for me is because its been previously established that Clan Nosferatu are the best of the best in the world when it comes to hacking and digital warfare,and that ShreckNet was meant to be so colossally difficult to breach that even an Ancilla Tremere master hacker with the Thaumaturgical Path of Technology and a whole bunch of fancy complimentary rituals couldn't pull it off...

    ...and yet one human intelligence agency without supernatural advantages, that the Nosferatu would have without a doubt been watching like hawks (and therefore have seen the breach coming from a mile away), managed to breach the system and suddenly the Kindred world acts like ShreckNet is nothing more than an unsecured windows PC operated by an octogenarian who doesn't know what an antivirus is?

    Makes me think there's only two choices to explain it here:
    1. There's a lot more to the story that the Nosferatu aren't telling us.
    2. White-Wolf didn't want to put effort into devising a credible and at-all-plausible explanation for the start of the Second Inquisition.
    Seeing as I quite enjoy V5, I'm choosing to believe that its a case of 1 and not 2. But I am wondering how it is that you all look at it - do you take it at face value? Is there some deeper thing going on with it in your games? Have you or your STs simply scrapped the breach and gone with a plausible explanation for the origins of the SI?
    Where was it ever stated the Nosferatu were the smartest and best hackers in the world?

    Networks are being cracked and hacked every day. It's not inconceivable Shreknet got hacked. As a matter of fact, It's good. In the modern age, it should be extremely difficult for vampires to remain hidden.

    Leave a comment:


  • Illuminostro
    replied
    Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
    So, the whole ShreckNet breach that happened at the hands of the NSA in 2004 in V5 has me wondering how everyone sees it.

    The main reason its a curiosity for me is because its been previously established that Clan Nosferatu are the best of the best in the world when it comes to hacking and digital warfare,and that ShreckNet was meant to be so colossally difficult to breach that even an Ancilla Tremere master hacker with the Thaumaturgical Path of Technology and a whole bunch of fancy complimentary rituals couldn't pull it off...

    ...and yet one human intelligence agency without supernatural advantages, that the Nosferatu would have without a doubt been watching like hawks (and therefore have seen the breach coming from a mile away), managed to breach the system and suddenly the Kindred world acts like ShreckNet is nothing more than an unsecured windows PC operated by an octogenarian who doesn't know what an antivirus is?

    Makes me think there's only two choices to explain it here:
    1. There's a lot more to the story that the Nosferatu aren't telling us.
    2. White-Wolf didn't want to put effort into devising a credible and at-all-plausible explanation for the start of the Second Inquisition.
    Seeing as I quite enjoy V5, I'm choosing to believe that its a case of 1 and not 2. But I am wondering how it is that you all look at it - do you take it at face value? Is there some deeper thing going on with it in your games? Have you or your STs simply scrapped the breach and gone with a plausible explanation for the origins of the SI?
    Where was it ever stated the Nosferatu were the smartest and best hackers in the world?

    Networks are being cracked and hacked every day. It's not inconceivable Shreknet got hacked. As a matter of fact, It's good. In the modern age, it should be extremely difficult for vampires to remain hidden.

    Leave a comment:


  • elmerg
    replied
    Originally posted by Theodrim View Post
    Funny enough, the Rokugan and Abeir-Toril settings are perfect examples of the problem I'm calling out, on either side of the coin. That being, when game mechanics and rules changes dictate metaplot.

    I never played the L5R RPG, but I played the hell out of the CCG back in the day. Sure, metaplot advancement happened with expansion set release and edition update, but the rules were never completely overhauled as long as I played it. The only major changes I can remember were espionage mechanics for clan Scorpion and alliance/rivalry mechanics for Yoritomo, but both were expansions of game mechanics that already existed; while edition changes had balance and QoL passes, and incorporated errata, core mechanics and gameplay loop stayed the same.

    Then...there's FR. The 1st-2nd edition change had the Time of Troubles, but those metaplot changes were due to outside circumstances -- the satanic panic and TSR's PR problem. Most complaint about it came from a place of perceived capitulation by TSR to moral busybodies who would never be satisfied in the first place, and it was quickly forgiven thanks to good support and content from Greenwood and his team. The mechanical changes were more balance/QoL passing than anything, and the core mechanics stayed mostly the same.

    2nd-3rd was a complete rules overhaul, and while the metaplot advanced there were no massive changes to it and continuity was largely preserved. The only markers I can think of offhand are Bane's resurrection and the Bhaalspawn crisis, but that's it. 3rd to 4th was the doozy between the Second Sundering and the Spellplague, and even a casual observer would note the metaplot advancement was largely in service to the rules overhaul. Which is the issue I take, when rules, and rule changes, dictate metaplot.

    Didn't most of L5R's metaplot changes happen because of player action, though? Like, that was a constant complaint I heard about it when there was talk of 'official metaplot' LARP events for WoD.

    Honestly though, outside of maybe two things, I can't pick out anything major that is 'mechanical overhaul led to this plot change'. Most of this, looking at it, can easily be a logical advancement of the old metaplot. Assuming you're not caught up in the 'invincible vampires own all governments FOREVER' fallacy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Theodrim
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    The metaplot wasn't upended. It was simply continued.

    The whole point of metaplot is to have events happen to Rokugan, Toril, or whatever to give STs something to do.
    Funny enough, the Rokugan and Abeir-Toril settings are perfect examples of the problem I'm calling out, on either side of the coin. That being, when game mechanics and rules changes dictate metaplot.

    I never played the L5R RPG, but I played the hell out of the CCG back in the day. Sure, metaplot advancement happened with expansion set release and edition update, but the rules were never completely overhauled as long as I played it. The only major changes I can remember were espionage mechanics for clan Scorpion and alliance/rivalry mechanics for Yoritomo, but both were expansions of game mechanics that already existed; while edition changes had balance and QoL passes, and incorporated errata, core mechanics and gameplay loop stayed the same.

    Then...there's FR. The 1st-2nd edition change had the Time of Troubles, but those metaplot changes were due to outside circumstances -- the satanic panic and TSR's PR problem. Most complaint about it came from a place of perceived capitulation by TSR to moral busybodies who would never be satisfied in the first place, and it was quickly forgiven thanks to good support and content from Greenwood and his team. The mechanical changes were more balance/QoL passing than anything, and the core mechanics stayed mostly the same.

    2nd-3rd was a complete rules overhaul, and while the metaplot advanced there were no massive changes to it and continuity was largely preserved. The only markers I can think of offhand are Bane's resurrection and the Bhaalspawn crisis, but that's it. 3rd to 4th was the doozy between the Second Sundering and the Spellplague, and even a casual observer would note the metaplot advancement was largely in service to the rules overhaul. Which is the issue I take, when rules, and rule changes, dictate metaplot.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

    What is more nihilistic that having a bunch of un-cool plebs puncture the bubble of your power fantasy?

    Well, there's the fact that in pretty much every other game in the line, mortals are doomed from the onset.

    Can't destroy the Changelings, without destroying the very spirit of humanity itself.

    Can't destroy Mages, without destroying the limitless potential of humanity's will.

    Can't destroy Werewolves, because the mere sight of their full power drives people to temporary madness. Also they're the only thing standing between you and the literal apocalypse.

    And we can't forget the fact that even God himself has a grudge against humanity, when he ordered his Arch Angels to lay curses upon the entire species after the whole Demon rebellion. One of which was stripping humans of the knowledge of self resurrection, which logic would imply mortals were never supposed to stay dead in the first place, and thus the Underworld may in fact become the final resting place for humanity's souls after all.

    Edit: Oh yeah, and another one of those curses states that every achievement mankind strives for will inevitably become corrupted. So even if mortals did win the war, and the Technocracy did complete their plan of creating a world based on secular rationalism, we may be looking at an Anti-Christ situation. Since part of the prophecy refers to him convincing humanity to turn its back on faith and celebrate the glory of Man over God.
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 10-19-2019, 12:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grumpy RPG Reviews
    replied
    Originally posted by Lian View Post
    Vampires are very much uniquely effectable by fairly mundane means.
    Yes, this is true - no magical mechanism protects vampires automatically.

    Also, everyone hates vampires. If your average werewolf / mage / wraith / changeling heard that vampires are being hunted and killed by mortals, most of those splats would respond with "Really? Can I watch?"

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


    Another thing we might be missing is whether or not V5 assumes all the games are part of one joined cosmology, or if they're their own self contained worlds. Because depending on the answer, the SI may not just be going to war with vampires, but potentially every form of supernatural. The vast majority of which don't have that damned sunlight weakness that render vampires so vulnerable to attack.

    The Vast majority of other supernatural beings have a supernatural method of dealing with information. The Mists will eat any "war on changelings". Delerium will eat into any "war on fera" Paradox and disbelief will eat into any "war on magic". Vampires are very much uniquely effectable by fairly mundane means.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

    The SI going after Changelings is sort of a moral gray area, too. I mean, on one hand, they're technically body snatchers, depending on how you look at it? But on the other hand, they're the living embodiment of humanity's capacity for imagination, and wiping them out would turn society into a cold, sterile world of Vulcan logic.
    To be fair, only the sidhe are body snatchers. The rest are Trill symbiotes or Tok'Ra.

    And the current Changelings are very different from the Second Wave coming led by the Formorians (who are not the werewolf kind but ancient demon gods)

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
    Also, Mages are mortal (well, Mortal+), so they don't get tripped up by the same things vamps or other Night Folk do.

    Plus, Mages have been dealing with the Technocracy up until now. Heavy technological surveillance has been the norm for decades. Would groups like the Traditions or Disparates even notice the distinction?

    Vampire: "The government is kicking our asses! This is totally unprecedented!"
    Mage: "Welcome to the club, drac. Wait, this is JUST the government?"
    The SI going after Changelings is sort of a moral gray area, too. I mean, on one hand, they're technically body snatchers, depending on how you look at it? But on the other hand, they're the living embodiment of humanity's capacity for imagination, and wiping them out would turn society into a cold, sterile world of Vulcan logic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bluecho
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post


    Another thing we might be missing is whether or not V5 assumes all the games are part of one joined cosmology, or if they're their own self contained worlds. Because depending on the answer, the SI may not just be going to war with vampires, but potentially every form of supernatural. The vast majority of which don't have that damned sunlight weakness that render vampires so vulnerable to attack.
    Also, Mages are mortal (well, Mortal+), so they don't get tripped up by the same things vamps or other Night Folk do.

    Plus, Mages have been dealing with the Technocracy up until now. Heavy technological surveillance has been the norm for decades. Would groups like the Traditions or Disparates even notice the distinction?

    Vampire: "The government is kicking our asses! This is totally unprecedented!"
    Mage: "Welcome to the club, drac. Wait, this is JUST the government?"

    Leave a comment:


  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

    What is more nihilistic that having a bunch of un-cool plebs puncture the bubble of your power fantasy?

    Another thing we might be missing is whether or not V5 assumes all the games are part of one joined cosmology, or if they're their own self contained worlds. Because depending on the answer, the SI may not just be going to war with vampires, but potentially every form of supernatural. The vast majority of which don't have that damned sunlight weakness that render vampires so vulnerable to attack.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post

    As I said earlier "but we liked it as a nihilistic power fantasy for gamers!" Masquerade survived for 20 something years off that setting, even if it was never originally supposed to be that. Requiem tried to tone things down a bit, which is fine for players who were interested in that kind of narrative. But for the other players who enjoyed a more loose cannon play style, it seems like they are losing the medium which allowed them to experience it.
    Well, I point out that CHICAGO BY NIGHT 5E is pretty much the same business as it always is. There is a spy for the 2nd Inquisition in the city (Flyboy) and there's a Guantanamo Bay-esque prison camp but no one is moving to exterminate all vampires in the city. They're mostly just sitting back and monitoring things. The 2nd Inqusition is there if you want to give your player characters a scare, not as the be-end-all opponent unless you're doing the London campaign.

    It's still a power fantasy, IMHO.

    It's just you can fight hunters as a enemy too.

    Leave a comment:

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