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Helena/Portia - Candid Camera or real?

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  • Helena/Portia - Candid Camera or real?

    Hello everybody,

    i'll make it short, as usual: Are these the real stats of Helena/Portia in V5?

    elena "Portia"
    Sire: Minos
    Embraced: 1207 BCE (Born 1233 BCE)
    Generation: 4th
    Blood Potency: 7
    Ambition: Find a sure way to stave off the Beckoning
    Convictions: Always outsmart your enemies
    Touchstones: Trina Dimitriou — distant descendant of Prias
    Attributes: Strength 5, Dexterity 5, Stamina 4; Charisma 5, Manipulation 5, Composure 3; Intelligence 4, Wits 5, Resolve 5;
    Skills: Athletics 3, Brawl (Grappling) 5, Craft (Architecture) 4, Melee (Swords) 3, Stealth 3, Survival 4; Etiquette 4, Insight (Ambition) 5, Intimidation (Interrogation) 5, Leadership (Command) 5, Performance (3), Persuasion (Rhetoric) 5, Subterfuge (Long Con) 5; Academics (History) 4, Awareness 3, Occult 4, Politics (Chicago Kindred) 5
    Disciplines: Auspex 5, Blood Sorcery 3, Celerity 5, Dominate 5, Fortitude 3, Obfuscate 3, Presence 5
    Health: 7
    Humanity: 3
    Willpower: 8

    If so, what the hell happened to the Demigod of previous Versions? Thanks for your input.

  • #2
    That's them. V5 got rid of traits in the 6+ range.


    Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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    • #3
      There are no 6+ traits in V5. When it comes to Helena in particular, she massively lost power when she staved off the Beckoning.

      (Of course, she remains still powerful enough to use Presence on her entire present clan to dictate their opinion and vote during The Sacrifice.)
      Last edited by Cifer; 10-16-2019, 02:16 PM.

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      • #4
        V5 has reduced the power of all the formally "god like"elders by removing the 6 and higher traits. The idea is rolling fistfuls of dice for even simple actions can quickly become meaningless and time consuming.

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        • #5
          Between the dsicpline spread, abilites, and BP7, this caharacter is very powerful. V5 is a much different animal than previous editions, so looking at V5 statlines from and different editions understanding of rules will not give you the ful scope of what this character can do. The system is very different and BP 7 alone is godlike. All character statlines inclueding hte PCs are simingly lower because the difficulty of accomplishing tasks is somewhat lower.

          This character can gain 4 extra dice to any pool, heal 3 damage per round, adds 3 dice to all discipline uses, adds 3 dice to resist the use of any dicipline against her, and can re-roll any rouse check of a level 4 or lower power. That is extremly powerful especially since she has 4 elder level disciplines and is sitting on max dice pools for nearly all of her tricks. Comparied to other characters this is one of the most powerful characters in the game.

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          • #6
            I didn't like that from Chicago by Night. But it's understandable when V5 hasn't released rules for elder characters yet. I hope to see that soon.

            - Saga

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            • #7
              This is what it seens: vampires nerfed to the ground. Now we play with goth, mundane humans.

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              • #8
                For clarity, the rules for elder characters have already been released. When you consider that rolling nine or ten dice, plus your Blood Potency bonuses (such as blood surge, etc.) you're unstoppable compared to a neonate with a dice pool of three or four. There's no nerfing, it's just that some readers don't appear to be taking into account the benefits of Generation, Blood Potency, amalgam Disciplines, and so on.


                Matthew Dawkins
                In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


                Website: https://www.matthewdawkins.com
                Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

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                • #9
                  From a game design perspective, it's very interesting to see people consider characters as weak just because they don't have 6+ in a stat. There's a level of dissonance some readers seem to experience that blinds them to the fact that a character like Helena is vastly more powerful than anything a protagonist will reach after several chronicles of play.


                  Matthew Dawkins
                  In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


                  Website: https://www.matthewdawkins.com
                  Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
                    From a game design perspective, it's very interesting to see people consider characters as weak just because they don't have 6+ in a stat. There's a level of dissonance some readers seem to experience that blinds them to the fact that a character like Helena is vastly more powerful than anything a protagonist will reach after several chronicles of play.
                    First: Thank you for your responses everyone.

                    Its psychologically normal for people to react this way, considering V5 is new and a Lot of Players have known her for a very Long Time.

                    Of course Matthew and some others are right when saying that Numbers arent the Same for V5. I have Not studied my V5 Books extensively yet, but she seemed diminished in Power even when taking the new System into Account.

                    Whats the effect of staving Off the beckoning?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Marcus Meridian View Post
                      Whats the effect of staving Off the beckoning?
                      Helena got weaker as she was resisting the Beckoning and diablerized a delegation of Ashirra in Tunisia. She felt weaker when she did that, but the Beckoning call vanished as a result.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post
                        For clarity, the rules for elder characters have already been released. When you consider that rolling nine or ten dice, plus your Blood Potency bonuses (such as blood surge, etc.) you're unstoppable compared to a neonate with a dice pool of three or four. There's no nerfing, it's just that some readers don't appear to be taking into account the benefits of Generation, Blood Potency, amalgam Disciplines, and so on.



                        And how much more powerful she is than Talley, Damien, Bronwyn or Lodin?


                        1 or 2 dice? Maybe not even that with Talley?
                        Last edited by Undead rabbit; 10-17-2019, 12:31 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post



                          And how much more powerful she is than Talley, Damien, Bronwyn or Lodin?


                          1 or 2 dice? Maybe not even that with Talley?
                          What's her blood potency and generation compared to them? How much added damage resistance and blood surge benefits does she possess?


                          Matthew Dawkins
                          In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


                          Website: https://www.matthewdawkins.com
                          Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Gentleman Gamer View Post

                            What's her blood potency and generation compared to them? How much added damage resistance and blood surge benefits does she possess?


                            Helena: 4th gen, Blood Potency 7

                            Talley: 7th gen, Blood Potency 6

                            Lodin: 7th gen , Blood Potency 5

                            Damien 6th gen, Blood Potency 5

                            Bronwyn 8th generation, Blood Potency 5



                            Which means that she has 1 dice bonus from Blood Surge compared to them.
                            They mend the same ammount of damage.
                            No dice bonus compared to Talley when it comes to bonus to discipline, and only 1 dice compared to Lodin, Bronwyn and Damien.


                            Which means that a 3300 years old 4th gen has roughly 1 dice more from Blood Surge and dice bonus to discipline than vampires with roughly one fifth or one sixth of her age.
                            I mean, in the old edition Lodin used
                            Last edited by Undead rabbit; 10-17-2019, 12:39 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post



                              Helena: 4th gen, Blood Potency 7

                              Talley: 7th gen, Blood Potency 6

                              Lodin: 7th gen , Blood Potency 5

                              Damien 6th gen, Blood Potency 5

                              Bronwyn 8th generation, Blood Potency 5



                              Which means that she has 1 dice bonus from Blood Surge compared to them.
                              They mend the same ammount of damage.
                              No dice bonus compared to Talley when it comes to bonus to discipline, and only 1 dice compared to Lodin, Bronwyn and Damien.


                              Which means that a 3300 years old 4th gen has roughly 1 dice more from Blood Surge and dice bonus to discipline than vampires with roughly one fifth or one sixth of her age.
                              I mean, in the old edition Lodin used
                              I think that's fair, given she's been weakened by the Beckoning. But if you want to give her automatic successes against player characters to make her more impressive, then absolutely do so.


                              Matthew Dawkins
                              In-House Developer for Onyx Path Publishing


                              Website: https://www.matthewdawkins.com
                              Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/matthewdawkins

                              Comment

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