Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

v20-Do you find the paths of enlightement THAT inhumane?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • v20-Do you find the paths of enlightement THAT inhumane?

    I love the Sabbat, they be cool as peaches. But i have to admit,while i laso love the Paths. I find that the Paths fail to do what they sought ought to do.
    Which is being a compeltely inhumane philosophy.
    I mean,Satanists exist,people obessesed with death exist,people who are power hungry exist. people who believe in honor even if they are otherwise morally abhorrent exist. All of them are humans. What makes the Paths inhuman?

  • #2
    Blue and orange morality

    The Path of Cathari is really just a degenerate version of real Catharism the way it was practiced in southern France right before the Albigensian Crusade.


    The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

    Comment


    • #3
      Disregard Paths, acquire Roads.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
        I mean,Satanists exist,people obessesed with death exist,people who are power hungry exist. people who believe in honor even if they are otherwise morally abhorrent exist. All of them are humans. What makes the Paths inhuman?
        I'm a power hungry satanist, obsessed with death and uphold a code of honor,
        I tell that to everyone, and spend days planning my overtaking of the world and the massive sacrifices to the gods that will ensue in the name of chaos

        but I'm weak, my muscles fail me, a small calliber bullet through the arm and I'm paralyzed by pain,
        I have to see a doctor every week to fix some pain on the elbows or my back getting stuck,
        sports don't fix it, you still have sports related injuries,
        I tire quickly, need to take breaks, and can't stay focused for more than 10 minutes,
        I need food (3 fucking meals a day), running water and plumbery to stay alive and clean, but I still manage to catch diseases which require medication, manufactured pills and a warm bed,
        my senses are very limited, I can see well, but I can only focus on a few things, hearing, smelling and all that however...very limited, and they can't all work together very well

        so at the end of the day, I throw all my world domination plans, say hello to my neighbors, pay my bills, grab a snack and go watch some netflix (I don't watch netflix), and wonder if Patrick from SpongeBob wasn't satan after all and captain crabs a Tzimisce on the path of power


        see, vampires don't have those limitations, which is what allows them to take on extreme moralities without having to worry about the consequences to the same degree that we do

        also, sabbat paths don't have equivalent human philosophies (although inspired by human philosophy according to canon),
        the only one that comes close is Cathari, but I suspect it's inspired by an anti-gnosticism book that some catholic wrote during the middle ages to slander gnostic beliefs

        Roads seem more in line with human philosophy however
        Last edited by Pleiades; 11-12-2019, 04:30 PM.


        -

        Comment


        • #5
          Kammerer what's the difference?


          The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

            I'm a power hungry satanist, obsessed with death and uphold a code of honor,
            I tell that to everyone, and spend days planning my overtaking of the world and the massive sacrifices to the gods that will ensue in the name of chaos

            but I'm weak, my muscles fail me, a small calliber bullet through the arm and I'm paralyzed by pain,
            I have to see a doctor every week to fix some pain on the elbows or my back getting stuck,
            sports don't fix it, you still have sports related injuries,
            I tire quickly, need to take breaks, and can't stay focused for more than 10 minutes,
            I need food (3 fucking meals a day), running water and plumbery to stay alive and clean, but I still manage to catch diseases which require medication, manufactured pills and a warm bed,
            my senses are very limited, I can see well, but I can only focus on a few things, hearing, smelling and all that however...very limited, and they can't all work together very well

            so at the end of the day, I throw all my world domination plans, say hello to my neighbors, pay my bills, grab a snack and go watch some netflix (I don't watch netflix), and wonder if Patrick from SpongeBob wasn't satan after all and captain crabs a Tzimisce on the path of power


            see, vampires don't have those limitations, which is what allows them to take on extreme moralities without having to worry about the consequences to the same degree that we do

            also, sabbat paths don't have equivalent human philosophies (although inspired by human philosophy according to canon),
            the only one that comes close is Cathari, but I suspect it's inspired by an anti-gnosticism book that some catholic wrote during the middle ages to slander gnostic beliefs

            Roads seem more in line with human philosophy however
            I... havent considered that! Are you saying a Cainite's lack of human frailties allows to take his philosophies to inhuman levels. Even if the philosophy in itself is not inhuman?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post

              I... havent considered that! Are you saying a Cainite's lack of human frailties allows to take his philosophies to inhuman levels. Even if the philosophy in itself is not inhuman?
              no, the reverse,
              humans can understand and sympathize with a cainite morality (like we as roleplayers do), but adopting such morality and putting it into practice to the letter is another story (due to our limitations)

              also, it's worth noting that alot of people see paths as checklists of things to do and not to do,
              but for vampires, it's anchored into their psyche, it's second nature for them (at least, at higher levels)


              -

              Comment


              • #8
                The standard version of paradox is literally unworkable. Bones is similarly logistically unfeasible.

                But y'know, I like basically almost everything else, the religiosity of it all. Honestly, I think Humanity is the biggest problem. It's so universal, whilst humans have all their exceptions and noble causes and beliefs. We can dehumanize, disassociate, justify and so on and so forth. It's Inhuman that a vampire has to adopt a standardized morality.

                There was this one time where my vampire, an honourable mafia type above petty crime, confiscated a phone and then destroyed it because someone filmed him. The storyteller lapsed into this knee-jerk 'That's destruction of stuff' which made it a bigger morality drain than just taking the phone for myself. I was playing an honourable character who didn't like stealing. We laughed it off but the hierachy of sins really needs to be more vague.


                Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                  There was this one time where my vampire, an honourable mafia type above petty crime, confiscated a phone and then destroyed it because someone filmed him. The storyteller lapsed into this knee-jerk 'That's destruction of stuff' which made it a bigger morality drain than just taking the phone for myself. I was playing an honourable character who didn't like stealing.
                  that's where the conscience roll comes in,
                  if the roll is successful, you rationalize your deed with whatever code of honor your mafiosi has,
                  if it fails, the beast takes the opportunity to creep in a bit more and your mafiosi becomes a bit more psychotic as a result


                  -

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Honestly, the morality system in Vampire strikes me as a bigger sign of the game's inherent subliminal religiosity than the Caine and Abel myth. The basic needs that every other form of life has are evil when expressed by the player character, and a vampire that doesn't despise him/herself for eating is punished by the game mechanics. This is more alien to me than any of the Paths of Enlightenment manage to be, and I strongly believe that it's because I don't believe that God hates me for existing in real life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                      that's where the conscience roll comes in,
                      if the roll is successful, you rationalize your deed with whatever code of honor your mafiosi has,
                      if it fails, the beast takes the opportunity to creep in a bit more and your mafiosi becomes a bit more psychotic as a result
                      If the game advised the storyteller to alter the difficulty based on the character's beliefs, that'd be fine, but there's no such thing.


                      Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                        The standard version of paradox is literally unworkable. Bones is similarly logistically unfeasible.

                        But y'know, I like basically almost everything else, the religiosity of it all. Honestly, I think Humanity is the biggest problem. It's so universal, whilst humans have all their exceptions and noble causes and beliefs. We can dehumanize, disassociate, justify and so on and so forth. It's Inhuman that a vampire has to adopt a standardized morality.

                        There was this one time where my vampire, an honourable mafia type above petty crime, confiscated a phone and then destroyed it because someone filmed him. The storyteller lapsed into this knee-jerk 'That's destruction of stuff' which made it a bigger morality drain than just taking the phone for myself. I was playing an honourable character who didn't like stealing. We laughed it off but the hierachy of sins really needs to be more vague.
                        You hit the nail on the head.

                        The problem is that WW came up with the rule that if you degenerate to 0 Humanity, you became a mindless, unplayable beast. But have many cognizant, motivated godlike NPC's with 0 Humanity.

                        As history shows, there are many humans who can murder and torture other humans with no remorse or hesitation, and still have families they care for, who they defend and protect.

                        They should have retconned that stupid rule, and not invented 50 Paths of Stupidity.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Reasor View Post
                          Honestly, the morality system in Vampire strikes me as a bigger sign of the game's inherent subliminal religiosity than the Caine and Abel myth. The basic needs that every other form of life has are evil when expressed by the player character, and a vampire that doesn't despise him/herself for eating is punished by the game mechanics. This is more alien to me than any of the Paths of Enlightenment manage to be, and I strongly believe that it's because I don't believe that God hates me for existing in real life.
                          Well, the game is designed on blatant Judeo-Christian mythology. Something Requiem tried to fix.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Illuminostro View Post

                            Well, the game is designed on blatant Judeo-Christian mythology. Something Requiem tried to fix.
                            NB: "Judeo-Christian" is a political buzzword meant to imply some form of continuity between Judaism and Christianity after the latter tried to kill the former (i.e. where it doesn't exist), so it's better to stick to the term "Abrahamic" when talking about more than one of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in the same group.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                              NB: "Judeo-Christian" is a political buzzword meant to imply some form of continuity between Judaism and Christianity after the latter tried to kill the former (i.e. where it doesn't exist), so it's better to stick to the term "Abrahamic" when talking about more than one of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in the same group.
                              Well, I refuse to be a victim of PC/Cancel culture, but you are correct that all 3 religions spring from fhe same source. the "buzzword" term has been used by academics for decades, if not centuries.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X