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  • #16
    Originally posted by trueann View Post
    Isn't this concept outdated with all that progress of modern technologies?
    Yes, and a story of its collapse would be interesting.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

      I disagree, there, though because people disbelieve evidence all the time. Especially if there's money to be made in the matter or if they have a vested interest in not believing its true. Real life history has huge numbers of problems and threats being ignored by people or disbelieved because it wasn't in their interests.

      Cainites have a vested interest in making it so humans don't believe in them and the resources to make sure people don't.

      Like that Mayor in Jaws.
      That would produce a world where the public is divided on the question of vampire existence and politicians refuse to act, while credible sources they should be listening to are screaming at them loudly and being ignored. That is not how the setting is remotely presented.


      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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      • #18
        Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

        That would produce a world where the public is divided on the question of vampire existence and politicians refuse to act, while credible sources they should be listening to are screaming at them loudly and being ignored. That is not how the setting is remotely presented.
        Yes, now add supernatural powers to make sure that one side convincingly defeats the other.

        The big difference about the WOD is that there are a bunch of committed experts, scientists, and people trying to inform the public. They're just murdered, blackmailed, framed, and so on until they take up the hammer and stake.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #19
          Or there's the much simpler CofD approach:

          Humans absolutely believe the supernatural exists (even if they are ill-informed and so on), but have become instinctively and subconsciously wired towards denial as a survival/coping mechanism.

          The Masquerade is then focused on two complimentary goals: making sure nobody leans too heavily on those instincts that the illusion of safety in denials snaps, and to help insulate vampires from humans that manage to avoid being caught up in it (aka hunters).

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          • #20
            Eh, I think vampires are kind of losers if they can't keep themselves secret without "and humans are magically unable to see them."


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
              Eh, I think vampires are kind of losers if they can't keep themselves secret without "and humans are magically unable to see them."
              Then everyone in reality is a loser, because no conspiracy that large could ever be pulled off without magic. It’s how we know the moon landing happened, Al-Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attacks, the Holocaust happened, crisis actors at school shootings aren’t a thing, climate change is real, vaccines don’t cause autism, and the Earth is round. Because the scale of the conspiracies required for the alternatives are impossible.


              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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              • #22
                Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                Then everyone in reality is a loser, because no conspiracy that large could ever be pulled off without magic. It’s how we know the moon landing happened, Al-Qaeda carried out the 9/11 attacks, the Holocaust happened, crisis actors at school shootings aren’t a thing, climate change is real, vaccines don’t cause autism, and the Earth is round. Because the scale of the conspiracies required for the alternatives are impossible.
                Yep. I'm more comfortable with that as a game and storytelling mechanic yes. Because, again, the WOD is the place where at the end of the day you can get on the national news and reveal that vampires are real....

                And they change the channel.

                I feel it's a funner game that way.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #23
                  Alright, I'm discounting V5 cause that shit's fucked. If we go just by VTM/Normal sociology.

                  -It's in the best interest of anybody to keep quiet about vampires. Snitches get stiches, only worse because, y'know, vampires.
                  -People in power benefit from vampires, people out of power don't have the means to get the message out.
                  -Bribes, dominate, dementation; It's easy to discredit and ruin the repute of a whistleblower. The World of Darkness is generally more corrupt; it's easier to write someone off.
                  -Lizard people, UFOs, Bigfoot. Movies, TV, Videogames. There's so much misinformation out there and so much bullshit people scoff at. The internet is filled with lies and misinformation. Who would see 'All the worlds problems are caused by vampires' as anything other than a scam?

                  Oh, yeah, technomancy's a thing. It's real easy to find out who's posting the real videos and where they live. It's real easy disabling a camera. It's real easy... Technomagic was a developing field with plenty more discoveries to come in V20.

                  Last thing.
                  PCs are exceptional dumbasses and the storyteller's city is having an interesting time. For the most part, Vampires are competent people who embrace competent people to further their ambitions, they cultivate their childer and kill the failures. Cities are typically run well and vampire plots are slow-burners. Now, yeah, sometimes they'll embrace out of passion, sometimes people can hide how utterly inept they are, but the fools will be weeded out before real damage can be done. Vampire's a game about narrative, and like history, the interesting and different gets reported disproportionately compared to how things usually run.


                  V5 is not VTM

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                  • #24
                    Things I do in my games that are just background:

                    * Serial killers are viewed as far more common than in RL and is a thing that regularly happens.
                    * Occult-style murder hysteria is still believed in because, well, it's true in the World of Darkness. It's like shootings sadly in that it's a real thing that people tune out on the news.
                    * Organized crime is still a major thing in the United States and functions like it does in certain countries as an untouchable pillar. When a house full of bodies is found, people assume it's an organized crime disposal site.
                    * There's every bit as much conspiracy theory as there is in RL. Anti-vaxxers, UFOs, lizard people, pedophile conspiracies, and government black ops. The thing is, these are ALL WRONG but they misinterpret the real evidence for other conspiracies. So, the irony is that the real stuff going on is obfuscated by layers and layers of weird.
                    * There are thousands of experts who know the truth. Probably tens of thousands actually. The thing is that people who know about the supernatural and believe get recruited into one of the groups adjacent to it. If you're not killed, mind-wiped, or too scared to hide then you're likely to be a secretary for the Technocracy or an Arcanum professor.
                    * People do believe in the supernatural a lot more than they do in the quote-unquote real world. It's just there's every bit as much bullshit if not more than in the real world. Fortune tellers, astrology, occult stores, Wellness, crystals, and so on are in every phone book. Finding the real stuff is almost impossible.
                    * Horror practical special effects never went out of style. That combined with CGI means there's always massive numbers of Youtube videos of fake horrible murders because that's just a thing do. Interspersed between them is the occasional RL snuff film.
                    * Cellphone jammers are a real thing that a lot of vampires carry around and other supernaturals. There's also an enhanced version that prevents video and pictures from being taken.
                    * Police are just X more corrupt in the world. The New York City level of corruption never went away because it serves Camarilla interests and is just how police do business (many countries are this way anyway).


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #25
                      More technology and the surveillance state makes it much harder to be "plausible", but it is a genre convention. It is a very different setting if you eliminate the Masquerade, and generally it makes playing a Vampire be LESS fun, not MORE fun. (But if you disagree and think it is more fun, than fine.)

                      So you either handwave the problem away, or you and your gaming group figure out what kind of changes are necessary to get you to the point where you don't think about it. Perhaps that means in the WoD certain technologies don't exist, or at least don't exist in any kind of mass form. Or that the Technocracy makes sure their advanced AI that scans all wireless devices from their orbital panaopticon immediately notifies them of a violation, and they take care of it, while putting down said vampire in their naughty book for a future reckoning. There are solutions if you want them, and they're not less realistic than the undead needing to drink the blood of the living.

                      Ever since the game first came out, it's been my experience that most players don't like dealing with the Masquerade in any kind of serious way. They want Die Hard with fangs, and they get very annoyed if they're expected to play in a way where their character sacrifices anything for the Masquerade. They will always choose to do the thing that damages the Masquerade if it means they get to accomplish their goal faster. So whether a gaming group cares about this issue, or needs a plausible explanation is going to vary from gaming table to gaming table.

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                      • #26
                        Put it this way.
                        You upload footage of a vampire tearing someone in two. Here's what happens.

                        1- Every comment on your video is something like "Cool FX" or "It's amazing what CGI can do" or "LOL Obvious Hoax" or "Is this viral marketing for that new Revenant game?"
                        2- Your video never gets widely circulated. It's almost as if the algorithms are working against you. Maybe it gets taken down for violating the terms of service.

                        If you get mad and try to send your video to a news outlet
                        1- You never get a reply back
                        2- You have your memory wiped, or for some reason every time you try to talk about vampires you end up talking about lizard people instead. Failing that:
                        You are driven insane/Your family struggles and somehow they know it's your fault/ you find yourself compelled to streak across a children's playground/18 terabytes of child porn are found on your computer/ The cops arrest you for snuff distribution/copyright infringement and you hang in a jailcell.
                        Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; 01-04-2020, 09:23 AM.


                        V5 is not VTM

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                        • #27
                          Any tech given for public use is never the best.

                          Everything is able to be countered. Technology, tactics, or techniques.

                          Go read some tech magazines for inspiration. Japan made an invisibility cloak(exactly the same as metal gear solid). There are a plethora of spy gadgets. Anonymity devices are around too. Sunglasses that prevent your face from being recorded. IRL stuff is insane enough. Give it a sci fi twist and you need not worry about establishing anything.

                          Magic is available. I’m not gonna break my fingers explaining how obtuse you can be with that.
                          Last edited by Pnizzle; 01-04-2020, 11:42 AM.

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