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V5 in Top 5 latest icv2 charts

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  • V5 in Top 5 latest icv2 charts

    Vampire 5th Edition has maintained strong sales, it seems, through the last year since its retail release. D&D5, and new editions of Pathfinder and Shadowrun take the first three slots, but V5 seems to have overtaken FFGs Star Wars in the last Quarter, despite not releasing any new supplements as far as I know.

    With both The Onyx Path and Modiphius looking like the’ll have new supplements available in 2020 and beyond, things look pretty good for the game moving forward, I think.

    https://www.enworld.org/threads/icv2...strong.669434/
    Last edited by Trippy; 01-04-2020, 02:25 AM.

  • #2
    V5's been in the last two ICv2 charts as well, #5 in the quarter when it released then #4 after. Looks like it's holding in place currently.. Not bad for a book that hasn't had an edition on shelves in 15 years.

    And remember, ICv2 only counts physical book sales, so this is strictly sales numbers based on what the distributors and game shops are selling.

    Comment


    • #3
      Was there really much competition though? I kinda feel like WoD could do a lot better. WoD should threaten DnD. Perhaps if they released a solid, all-praise edition like v20 instead of v5 with marketing and the like, that TV show would've been anounced by now.


      V5 is not VTM

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      • #4
        Except that V20 has existed for quite a while and mysteriously isn't on most gaming stores. It's almost like the primary market for V20 was existing fans and V5 is aimed at new people and thus much better at selling physical copies.

        WoD has never really threatened DnD's status as top dog, and barring a great shift in the market it's highly unlikely to ever do so.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
          Was there really much competition though? I kinda feel like WoD could do a lot better. WoD should threaten DnD. Perhaps if they released a solid, all-praise edition like v20 instead of v5 with marketing and the like, that TV show would've been anounced by now.
          'Was there really much competition'.

          Yes, there was. Other games that have floated around and been on the ICv2 charts that V5 has lasted longer than, or V5 has ranked higher than. It was higher than Pathfinder last quarter, and prior to that it was higher than L5R.

          It's been on shelves for about 2 years and has three books and three pieces of ancillary material. Things like D&D have much, much more than that number..

          It's selling well. It's staying consistently in the top 5 of ALL RPGs in physical distribution. It's built to allow new players getting it in game stores for the first time an easier, more accessible entrance to the world, rather than the kitchen sink of V20. It's tying into the currently released and upcoming video games. You don't like it, but obviously people out there buying it do.
          Last edited by elmerg; 01-05-2020, 01:50 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Necroticbinder View Post
            Except that V20 has existed for quite a while and mysteriously isn't on most gaming stores. It's almost like the primary market for V20 was existing fans and V5 is aimed at new people and thus much better at selling physical copies.

            WoD has never really threatened DnD's status as top dog, and barring a great shift in the market it's highly unlikely to ever do so.
            At it’s peak, some time in the 1990s moving through the 2000s, White Wolf accounted for about 25% of all RPG sales. Vampire was their biggest brand and, I suspect, accounted for about half of that 25% (12.5%?). Even during this time, however, the D&D/AD&D sales were probably half of all RPG sales overall. White Wolf was the big trend setter and commercial phenomena of the 1990s, and remained a major RPG player in retail during the 2000s, but it never overtook D&D.

            Pathfinder became the ’No2’ game, behind D&D, more-or-less around the time White Wolf stopped having a retail presence and when D&D4 came out. Because Pathfinder is basically a different brand of D&D, it’s difficult to see what overall share it has - but a quick glance at most RPG retailers, with the shelf presence and number of supplements available, will tell you that D&D and Pathfinder are largely unassailable in the current market. FFG made a bit of a splash with GW’s Warhammer 40K RPG line, and then essentially replaced it with a Star Wars license when this started to fade - and this has been the state of the market for much of the previous decade, before V5 was released. All other titles had brief rises into the Top 5, behind the Top 3, and then dropped off after a Quarter or so.

            If Vampire can consistently, maintain a Top 5 presence, and even push up to a Top 3 presence, then this is good business. Shadowrun 6th was a fresh release last Quarter, and so might drop down if Vampire can get some more books on shelves soon. Star Wars already appears to be dropping. The only other release I’d note of sales significance is the upcoming Cyberpunk Red game as it will also tie in with a video game release. There aren’t that many other RPG brands that can really sustain significant retail sales, truth be told.

            Note that Vampire is also consistently Modiphius’ best seller too - which means it is ahead of other games like Star Trek, Conan and others. It’s also outselling things like Call of Cthulhu, Savage Worlds, Fate, etc, which is not an inconsiderable achievement.
            Last edited by Trippy; 01-05-2020, 04:44 PM.

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            • #7
              I hope this will finally put an end to the "V5 killed vampire!" arguments.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                I hope this will finally put an end to the "V5 killed vampire!" arguments.

                It won't. There are people out there who have been presented this data when they wax about V5 killing vampire or not selling well, and then those people responded with, and I quote, 'this biased data from people with a vested financial interest and doesn't show anything'.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  I hope this will finally put an end to the "V5 killed vampire!" arguments.
                  Amen to that!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                    I hope this will finally put an end to the "V5 killed vampire!" arguments.

                    It will not. V5 didn't killed Vampire on the side of the sales, it killed it on the side of the quality and on the side of identity, which is very different.
                    No doubt that V5 can be appealing for new fans and to get a wider market share than before. Thing is a lot of people here (but also on RPG.net and other places) thinks that Vampire The Masquerade 5th edition is not a Masquerade game at all.

                    If I could use a Star Wars reference: even the Phantom Meance was big hit, on the market side.
                    It was also a bad movie.

                    Or, if we want to keep ourselves in the tabletop realm: D&D 4ed sold well too.
                    But it wasn't really very loved, was it?

                    Assuming that if a product is bought, than a product is liked is... naive.
                    I bought every entry of V5 until now. And I am a very ardent critic of it and I think it really ruined the franchise.
                    And yet I bought it, and probably I will keep buying some future supplements too.
                    Last edited by Undead rabbit; 01-05-2020, 05:45 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post


                      It will not. V5 didn't killed Vampire on the side of the sales, it killed it on the side of the quality and on the side of identity, which is very different.
                      No doubt that V5 can be appealing for new fans and to get a wider market share than before. Thing is a lot of people here (but also on RPG.net and other places) thinks that Vampire The Masquerade 5th edition is not a Masquerade game at all.

                      This. Absolutely no interest in V5 outside of horrid fascination at what will be ruined next...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post


                        It will not. V5 didn't killed Vampire on the side of the sales, it killed it on the side of the quality and on the side of identity, which is very different.
                        No doubt that V5 can be appealing for new fans and to get a wider market share than before. Thing is a lot of people here (but also on RPG.net and other places) thinks that Vampire The Masquerade 5th edition is not a Masquerade game at all.

                        If I could use a Star Wars reference: even the Phantom Meance was big hit, on the market side.
                        It was also a bad movie.

                        Or, if we want to keep ourselves in the tabletop realm: D&D 4ed sold well too.
                        But it wasn't really very loved, was it?

                        Assuming that if a product is bought, than a product is liked is... naive.
                        I bought every entry of V5 until now. And I am a very ardent critic of it and I think it really ruined the franchise.
                        And yet I bought it, and probably I will keep buying some future supplements too.
                        Likewise however it is naive to believe that just because you and the people who regularly post online form the majority of the opinions. I've been a fan of the franchise going on over a decade, however I have only recently decided to join the community online, many of the people I know who play Vampire likewise have no presence on the online community.

                        Now I'm not saying which side is more prominent, I don't know. But for me and many of my friends we love V5, I find the expansions and progressions to the metaplot they are building on from BJD as well as others to be interesting. I'm also fond of many of the new mechanics, especially the Hunger mechanic and Touchstones/Convictions. There are some parts that I'm less fond of, but I've yet to encounter a system I can't pick some fault with.

                        If V5 isn't your cup of tea, that's fine, but declaring it to have killed the identity of Vampire seems a little harsh to me. However if you would like to offer a rebuttal and cite examples of why you believe that I would be interested in a reasoned debate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post


                          It will not. V5 didn't killed Vampire on the side of the sales, it killed it on the side of the quality and on the side of identity, which is very different.
                          No doubt that V5 can be appealing for new fans and to get a wider market share than before. Thing is a lot of people here (but also on RPG.net and other places) thinks that Vampire The Masquerade 5th edition is not a Masquerade game at all.

                          If I could use a Star Wars reference: even the Phantom Meance was big hit, on the market side.
                          It was also a bad movie.

                          Or, if we want to keep ourselves in the tabletop realm: D&D 4ed sold well too.
                          But it wasn't really very loved, was it?

                          Assuming that if a product is bought, than a product is liked is... naive.
                          I bought every entry of V5 until now. And I am a very ardent critic of it and I think it really ruined the franchise.
                          And yet I bought it, and probably I will keep buying some future supplements too.
                          Actually, The Phantom Menace fell short of it’s avowed target at the time of being the biggest movie of all time. It came out a couple of years after Titanic and the promotion was to overtake that movie’s box office. It didn’t. D&D4 almost saw the game flatline in terms of sales, apparently, and it was certainly being overtaken by Pathfinder, pushing it to the No2 slot for the first time in the game’s history. They tried to reverse the trend with their ‘Essentials’ line, and eventually just decided to go the whole hog with a new edition (D&D5). But all this is an aside, really.

                          The point is Vampire 5 is here to stay.

                          Your view on the game is fine, but subjective. It’s not the view I hold, or indeed others. The online communities are only a fraction of the overall market, and frankly I hold no value in a lot of the opinions you find in forums like RPG.net. I don’t agree with them and find the complaints to be based on rubbish analysis. V5 won the Origins 2019 Best RPG of the Year, as well as the Fans’ Award so it has a critical acclaim and popularity (and sales!) that goes beyond what people who don’t like it think.
                          Last edited by Trippy; 01-05-2020, 06:36 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Originally posted by Mithras304 View Post
                            Likewise however it is naive to believe that just because you and the people who regularly post online form the majority of the opinions. I've been a fan of the franchise going on over a decade, however I have only recently decided to join the community online, many of the people I know who play Vampire likewise have no presence on the online community.

                            Oh but it's not me. On this forum is roughly the majority, as you will see if you look through the old threads about the V5.
                            But, if you wish, you can take a peak at the biggest RPG forum out there, which is RPG.net, and see with your eyes that the reaction to V5 has been... divisive... at best.
                            This is the latest big thread about it on RPG.Net

                            https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...ncerns.847604/


                            Older entries are also quite informative.

                            https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...merged.839108/


                            https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...guides.836416/

                            https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...edited.837179/

                            https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...atcher.833120/

                            https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?thre...dition.832247/

                            If V5 isn't your cup of tea, that's fine, but declaring it to have killed the identity of Vampire seems a little harsh to me. However if you would like to offer a rebuttal and cite examples of why you believe that I would be interested in a reasoned debate.

                            The matter has been widely discussed here.
                            I could point you here.

                            http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...v5-sour-grapes

                            http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...from-all-sides

                            http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ivil-this-time

                            http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...to-5th-edition


                            My point was this at the time


                            If Masquerade goes in this direction it's simply not Masquerade anymore, but just a watered down Requiem. Besides at the current state the game is limited and unplayable, you don't have half of the clans, you don't have Sabbat, you lack elder rules, it's like Vampire the First edition all over again. This is not a step forward but backward to the First edition of the game.
                            I, like many others, play Masquerade for the distinctive elements of Masquerade, if I wanted to play with the Carthian, Invictus,VII or anything that resembles Requiem I'd play Requiem, but this is not Requiem: it's (or was) the Masquerade. At the current state there is no reason to support this game line and don't Stick with V20.

                            There is a differencee between changing ad updating a setting and changing its core essence.
                            Revised changed every clan, made the Sabbat the top player, wiped out and entire clan,pushed the anarchs on the edge of ruin, introduced the Kue jin for real, made mithras and Galbraith bite the dust, but It was still the Masquerade. The paradox is that revised changed many more things in terms of setting, but the things that changed in V5 are faaaar deeper in terms of subsequent change in the game identity. A game much less global and more focused in the cities, much less sect policy, and One of the sect completely out of the scene, and even if It will come back It will be barely recognizable. The whole concept of Elder manipulation, that drive the franchise since it's very first entry (remember Lodin?) hindered to it's core. The whole focus of narration pushed to the drama of your lost In humanity, when in Masquerade that was but one of the focuses. In one word: Requiem

                            I look at this and I see vampire the requiem, which is a good game, but I bought the Masquerade.

                            The changes in the setting go even deeper than the shockwave that hit Mage with Revised, the only thing that compares is the transformation of The Oblivion in Orpheus.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                              Oh but it's not me. On this forum is roughly the majority, as you will see if you look through the old threads about the V5.
                              Online communities account for less than a percent of the overall gaming community.

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