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Valeren/Obeah and the Clan Salubri in V5

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  • Banu_Saulot
    started a topic Valeren/Obeah and the Clan Salubri in V5

    Valeren/Obeah and the Clan Salubri in V5

    Hey people, I've been wondering, it was kinda interesting how they made Oblivion a Discipline for both Hecata and Lasombra (and basically separated Obtenetration and Necromancy in two branches, adding Ceremonies to the latter), and we all are discussing about Vicissitude and Tzimisce, but how about the other Clans, with the return of the Cappadocians and disintegration of the Tremere Clan, what better time for the Salubri to return (in some way or another, with or without Saulot)?
    And the fun quesiton is, how will their Discipline Valeren/Obeah be brought? Will it be an Amalgam power of Auspex and Fortitude to analyse life force and a second level to cure? Will it be part of a new Discipline in V5? I was even wondering if they would make some sort of hybrid like Oblivion is, but focused on the body and mind. Like Obeah changes the mind and heals the body, Vicissitude changes the body and fu%ks the mind, it's kind of an interesting pair, and given the historic mess with Tremere, Saulot and Tzimisce, it fits nicely.
    So what you think?

  • TwoDSix
    replied
    Honestly I don't see giving another Clan or Bloodline access to Blood Sorcery if it fits the theme as being inherently contradictory to reducing the focus on it, as it is Blood Sorcery has been brought down to a more reasonable level with a couple of 'core paths' that give you your 1-5 powers and paths themselves apparently being removed entirely.

    Now I could see Salubri with Blood Sorcery working, especially if their rituals are pretty much limited to wards. Like with Quietus it would allow their unique powers to make it through relatively unscathed and without being arbitarilly shoved together with another set of powers (*cough* Oblivion *cough*). But I don't think it would be the best way, as the Salubri were never spellcasting mystics, but rather mystics who meditated and made connections. I'd probably pick five or six powers I'd want to keep, put Sense Vitality as an Auspex 1 power, fold one or two of the 'touch' powers into Presence, and realise that a couple of powers have essnetially been folded into other Disciplines. Maybe a couple of Amalgam powers for those other powers that don't fit so neatly, but honestly I'm not sure they really need them to feel like Salubri.

    As I said, Blood Sorcery is the easy way, but that doesn't mean it's the right way. Honestly if I get to running Vampire before they get statted I'll just declare that all Salubri have Auspex/Fortitude/Presence, can only feed from willing humans, can take Sense Vitalit as an Auspex power, then worry about requirements for other powers only if a player is interested in pursuing Valeren.

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  • Banu_Saulot
    replied
    I don't think they are putting any more clans with Blood Sorcery (except Tzimisce kolduns?) and thank god for that, it's like the older editions fetish with thaumaturgy all over again (vampires used more magic than Garou shaman and mages).
    Chimestry could simply be two amalgam powers using Presence and Obfuscation (they would have to change Ravnos Discipline kit but it is a real crappy one either way). In the end I just want the Ravnos to go away, like really, Ravana dead or not, making all an ilusion or not I don't want the return of the Ravnos. The Followers of Set and the Giovanni got a good revamp, although the Ministry got better explained on Cult of the Blood Gods than the Anarch book, but I don't have any wanting for the revamp of ravnos, but I also don't think its impossible for the team to make them something interesting.
    And I said it before, Salubri probably would get two to three Amalgam powers simulating Obeah or Valeren, don't think any Blood Sorcery is envolved. From what I got of V5, they aren't making any clan exclusive discipline (at least two Clans must have access, like Oblivion), and I'm good with that, I myself take Amalgams (the ones that replicate once unique Disciplines) as power you can have with either one of the Disciplines necessary, you just have to have both of them as in-Clan ones. Because in the end, the game isn't about Disciplines and having a shit ton of different ones.
    And men, would Salubri be fun in this day (night) and age, there would be muslim Salubri, christian Salubri, buddhist Salubri, socialist Salubri, Inquisitor Salubri, soldier Salubri.... and on and on.

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  • GilbyTheFat
    replied
    Originally posted by elmerg View Post
    such as the removal of 'feed vitae to a baby' section.
    And praise Caine they did!

    When I saw that part I ended up sitting there with my mouth hanging open wondering who thought that was in any way a good idea.

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  • elmerg
    replied
    Originally posted by Daniel P View Post
    Just to stop an argument before it starts: Here is a picture from my version of the Original Anarch book for V5 --->

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_755_1578845977349_89[/ATTACH]

    As can be clearly seen in the original, she could be seen with a third eye open, but later versions hid/removed it for some reason.

    And while we are on the subject: Really hope the Salubri gets their own unique Discipline with Amalgams to represent different Castes within the Clan at large, just as stated above. Having the entire Discipline based on Amalgams from base Disciplines makes no sense Lore or Canonwise and would be a very lazy and really bad design choice IMO.

    Hope that helps!

    It seems like it was removed because, well, there's no mention of Salubri in the book anywhere and while it's a cool art piece, it's one of those 'why is this here? It doesn't reflect anything in the book'. The decision to remove it seems to have been made after Modiphius took over the V5 stewardship and made the other changes to the Anarch book, such as the removal of 'feed vitae to a baby' section.

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  • Dreaminggod
    replied
    Combine Obeah and Bardo? Farfetched, but they are similar enough. Though Obeah-as-Blood Sorcery would be interesting, if they continue to go down the path of the Baali and (arguably) Tremere being Salubri offshoots.

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  • TwoDSix
    replied
    Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
    The Tremere appear to be on borrowed time, with the way things are going for them. And if half the Lasombra are still alive to leave the Sabbat then Adonai's Salubri (who are literally professional warriors, therefore their survival prospects in war zones are significant) can always come back from obscurity and near-extinction.
    Yeah, I think we're more likely to see the Salubri as a Sabbat Clan than an Anarch one, really at this point the 'Antitribu' are the main Clan as opposed to the golconda-seeking diablerists, although I do hope they change the Sabbat Salubri's weakness to either the Healer or Warrior caste one. I also do suspect it'll be accompanied by metaplot essentially saying 'Salubri are now viewed as a Clan while Ravnos/Tremere aren't', and a widespread rumour that Salout's soul has consumed Tremere's.

    As for Valeren, I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it got incorporated into Blood Sorcery. It would be a terrible easy to do it, but also probably the easiest way. I just don't see it staying as it's own discipline unless they can shoehorn it into another Clan.

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  • GilbyTheFat
    replied
    Originally posted by Banu_Saulot View Post
    Not bad, although Compulsion have been a bit more defined in what the vampire does. I would say Sacrifice is more appropriate, like not self-sacrifice, any type. It could be sacrifice you friends for your goals, make dark pacts for power, sacrifice face to say what should be said, take the "all that is tainted must end" side of the Garou "should I kill innocent Pentex workers?" dilemma and etc.. But yeah, I think you got a good idea.
    In the end they would be fun crusaders, scholars, princes/barons, noddists, golconda gurus and other righteous or spiritual seekers.
    And demon-hunters. I threw in a few exorcist-type powers with Valeren so it wasn't all doctor work or combat, so when you get that Catholic Salubri exorcist whose compulsion kicks in he's gonna start looking vigorously for demonic and infernalist threats.

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  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by Mithras304 View Post
    I'm not entirely convinced we're going to see Chimestry to be fair. The Hecata are stated as the only independent clan, and the Ravnos haven't been mentioned as a member of any of the Sects.
    To me this suggests they have been written out of the game entirely, or they have joined the Sabbat (Which I would raise an eyebrow at frankly!).
    Though there is a possibility they've been demoted to Bloodline status as there are so few left, so they aren't factored in by the other 'Great Clans' anymore. But to be honest I think the current mindset of the creators is to move away from the controversialness of the Ravnos. If we do see them though, I suspect they will fold Chimestry into Obfuscate as Obfuscate messes with the minds of others to make the Vampire 'vanish', so the illusion creating is a similar vein.

    With Valeren/Obeah, I think if it isn't it's own Discipline it could well be put into either Auspex or Fortituide requiring an Amalgam of the other. However if it was an amalgam of those two that leaves them with a third open Discipline. Personally I think it should be a separate power though.

    I do hope we see then come back though, I have a feeling when they cover the Sabbat/Gehenna War they will pop up in that.

    There's a loresheet for having gotten some of the Rav ante's blood.. They are in there somewhere.. whether chimestry becomes Obfuscate well that's up in the air. Could easily be Obfuscate/Blood magic amalgams..

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  • Banu_Saulot
    replied
    Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
    My game's writeup has the Compulsion being Devotion. Dedication to an ideal is hard-coded into their blood, whether that be a religion, a profession, or some other code which defines how they live their unlives, so a former US Marine who took their oath very seriously and it carried over to their unlife will go out hunting those he deems "enemies of the United States both foreign and domestic."
    Not bad, although Compulsion have been a bit more defined in what the vampire does. I would say Sacrifice is more appropriate, like not self-sacrifice, any type. It could be sacrifice you friends for your goals, make dark pacts for power, sacrifice face to say what should be said, take the "all that is tainted must end" side of the Garou "should I kill innocent Pentex workers?" dilemma and etc.. But yeah, I think you got a good idea.
    In the end they would be fun crusaders, scholars, princes/barons, noddists, golconda gurus and other righteous or spiritual seekers.

    Leave a comment:


  • GilbyTheFat
    replied
    Originally posted by Banu_Saulot View Post
    Now the Compulsion is harder because we wouldn't give BE GOOD GUY compulsion.
    My game's writeup has the Compulsion being Devotion. Dedication to an ideal is hard-coded into their blood, whether that be a religion, a profession, or some other code which defines how they live their unlives, so a former US Marine who took their oath very seriously and it carried over to their unlife will go out hunting those he deems "enemies of the United States both foreign and domestic."

    Leave a comment:


  • GilbyTheFat
    replied
    Originally posted by Banu_Saulot View Post
    It certainly is easier to bring Salubri back as Anarch (since Hecata are independent fellows of V5)
    The Tremere appear to be on borrowed time, with the way things are going for them. And if half the Lasombra are still alive to leave the Sabbat then Adonai's Salubri (who are literally professional warriors, therefore their survival prospects in war zones are significant) can always come back from obscurity and near-extinction.

    Leave a comment:


  • Banu_Saulot
    replied
    You know, Players Guide states they will show THE 13 Clans. But since they've been shitting in Clan Ravnos for a long time (and I won't complain), they might just bring Salubri back in their place. It certainly is easier to bring Salubri back as Anarch (since Hecata are independent fellows of V5) since Camarilla members left them to die and then took in their murderers, then defining "so soon" about the Tzimisce (which for me will be the last clan exposed, although Old Clan could go Anarch along with the younglings from Sabbat).
    But I digress, I think they could come back soon in V5, and their Bane would probably be having to do some Willpower test to drink or attack unwilling and innocent people. Now the Compulsion is harder because we wouldn't give BE GOOD GUY compulsion. Besides we don't know if we will get the Avenging Salubri or the heal your burn Salubri.

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  • Chris Wilson
    replied
    I wonder if the clan write up will include 2 Banes or will it be more along the lines of the Hecata with one Bane only. That would be a bit disappointing. Maybe the Caste weaknesses will have to be simulated by players vis a vi Convictions.

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  • Draconis
    replied
    The Cam book also mentions Clan Salubri (though not by that name), so they definitely still exist in-universe!

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