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How would you stat Vasilisa?

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  • #16
    Not sure what stats she would have exactly, probably 8-9 in all the main Nos disciplines and a few others. As far as how powerful she is though, I remember reading somewhere that the main reasons she was able to kill Baba Yaga so easily is because she got ahold of Baba Yaga's true name, possbly from a powerful spirit. I don't remember where I read that though, and my google fu is failing me, so I could be wrong.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mithras304 View Post
      I believe it was stated Vasilisa was twice as old as Baba Yaga, so that would put it at around 14,000 years old. At that kind of age I think treating it like Ur-Shulgi is a good shout. For my games Ancient's like them I treat more as a force of nature, they can do more or less what they want to, you don't fight them, you get out the way.

      I would say for stats 9 dot's of Obfuscate and probably all the other Clan Disciplines.
      I sort of find it odd for her to be that old though, given that 14000 years ago is somewhat before the antedelluvians slew the second generation (I believe), and before Caine had inflicted his progeny with the curse of weakening blood.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by NuclearSnake View Post

        I sort of find it odd for her to be that old though, given that 14000 years ago is somewhat before the antedelluvians slew the second generation (I believe), and before Caine had inflicted his progeny with the curse of weakening blood.
        I'm pretty sure that's just the writers fudging up the numbers, since most fluff sources pinpoint the Antedilluvians' date of embrace around 8000BC. Unless of course the 'other than human stock'' Absimiliard used were already extremely long-lived/immortal creatures.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by NuclearSnake View Post

          I sort of find it odd for her to be that old though, given that 14000 years ago is somewhat before the antedelluvians slew the second generation (I believe), and before Caine had inflicted his progeny with the curse of weakening blood.
          The exact dating of the Second City and the slaying of the second generation was never mentioned. Vasilisa is the oldest known reference towards dating a methuselah, which is 6 millennia before Japeth.

          - Saga

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          • #20
            Honestly even at twice her Age she shouldn’t have been an I win button against Baba Yaga, its satisfying...

            In my world Baba Yaga prepared for her and when she entered the little grandmother, Baba Yaga activated a ritually and they essentially diablerise each other as a sacrifice reincarnating Baba Yaga as a Faery, whose chipset form is an innocent but whose grump Form May become a Hag Goddess, but she has the opportunity to shape her new destiny.


            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #21
              I hate misclicking on my phone and eating the post...

              I found the ending unsatisfy, I don’t think Vasilisa should be an I win button for the little grandmother. Age isn’t everything and their are deminishing returns. I have it Baba Yaga was prepared and when Vas entered her The Iron Hag activates a ritual and they essentially diablerized each other to fuel a reincarnation as a Faery child whose Childling phase is an innocent child but she could become a hag goddess in her grump phase. But at least she has control and a say in her destiny now.

              I also ignore the idea Baba Yaga only Obfuscates to become an Ogress. In my mind she mutated into an Ogress in her time as a friggin Child of Absimiliard!


              It is a time for great deeds!

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              • #22
                Given that Baba Yaga defeated Absimiliard, she should at least be a challenge to Vasilisa.

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                • #23
                  I don't care for the idea that Vasilisa is "twice as old" as Babya Yaga, because if they are more evenly matched, PCs can meaningfully participate in a conflict between the two by being the x-factor that tips the scales.

                  So I'd give Vasilisa roughly equivalent stats to Baba Yaga's in Rage Across Russia.

                  To Grandmother's House, or whatever it was called, was a badly-written adventure that had PCs idly twiddling their thumbs while NPCs did the important stuff.


                  Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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                  • #24
                    Baba Yaga didn't defeat Absimiliard on her own. She had help from her friends. Given the great age difference, Vasilisa's stats should be much higher then Baba Yaga. Although i am pretty sure her (him?) being 14000 years old is a mistake from the writers. They didnt consider that being twice as old as Baba Yaga would mean she predates the antes.

                    As far as stats are concerned. 9 in Animalisme, Potence, Obfuscate and Protean seems likely. Probably 8 or 9 in Vicissitude. High levels in Dementation would be fitting aswell. Mid levels in Celerity and Fortitude. I would guess low levels (if any) in Auspex, Presence and Dominate.

                    Blood sorcery seems unlikely as does Necromancy and Obtenebration.
                    Last edited by blackshade; 01-16-2020, 05:29 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by NuclearSnake View Post

                      I sort of find it odd for her to be that old though, given that 14000 years ago is somewhat before the antedelluvians slew the second generation (I believe), and before Caine had inflicted his progeny with the curse of weakening blood.
                      I am away from books, but I believe Absimilliard specifically embraced the Nicktuku to help slay the Second Generation. So they explicitly predate the slaying of the second generation and might easily predate the youngest of the true Antediluvians. I do remember on the old forum, it was said that the writer got Baba Yagas embrace of 5000 BC confused with her being 5 000 years old. So the "Twice as old" was intended to make her 10 000 years old, with an abrace at about 8 000 BC. That being said, recent archeological discoveries mean that 14 000 years back may be a better fit.

                      Its worth noting though that Absimilliard is not one of the more powerful Antedluvians. Saulot was straight out stated to be vastly more powerful. And... that works for me. The Antediluvians tend to be like "I will become one with the Abyss and transcend the curse of vampirism" and "Well, I will become the Demon Emperor of the next age!" and "You think to small, I'll diablerize God" etc. They got vast, esoteric plans to transcend.

                      Except Absimilliard who is like "Screw that, what about MY FACE!? MY BEAUTIFUL FAAAAAAACE!!" He was always described as the jock of the Antes. No interest in esoteric powers and concepts, left to snowball for fifteen thousand years is going to mean that he is way behind. Thats probably why the Nictuku, they are powerful enough to keep the other Antes off his back. And why they need to be so powerful, and so mentally restricted.

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                      • #26
                        I don’t know Abby transmuting his blood so hard in order to make Kaiju’s with the incidental effect of making his whole clan have giganto blood was always interesting to me.

                        But that’s my point if Abby can be leagues behind other Antes some who are younger then him, why wouldn’t Baba Yaga the premier Shaman of her day be railroaded into being automatically beneath Vas whose just a soulless child given eternity to play with. She was a born trancendental genius and Vas was just born without scrupples...


                        It is a time for great deeds!

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                        • #27
                          ^ Where does the assumption that Absimilliard is weaker then younger antes come from? I would wager he is far more powerful then Tremere or Augustus. Troile could be more powerful but she succefully diablerized the brujah founder and got all his powers. Any other ante that is considered more powerful by most is from the same era as Absimilliard.

                          I do agree that Yaga should have put up more of a fight. If only because of her prowess in blood magic. But i still dont think the end result should have been different. Given the great age difference that fight should have ended in Vasilisa's favor. The end result would have probably been different if Vasilisa came across Ur-Shulgi in that cabin. He would have decimated her imo.
                          Last edited by blackshade; 01-17-2020, 02:40 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Trollroot View Post

                            I am away from books, but I believe Absimilliard specifically embraced the Nicktuku to help slay the Second Generation. So they explicitly predate the slaying of the second generation and might easily predate the youngest of the true Antediluvians. I do remember on the old forum, it was said that the writer got Baba Yagas embrace of 5000 BC confused with her being 5 000 years old. So the "Twice as old" was intended to make her 10 000 years old, with an abrace at about 8 000 BC. That being said, recent archeological discoveries mean that 14 000 years back may be a better fit.

                            Its worth noting though that Absimilliard is not one of the more powerful Antedluvians. Saulot was straight out stated to be vastly more powerful. And... that works for me. The Antediluvians tend to be like "I will become one with the Abyss and transcend the curse of vampirism" and "Well, I will become the Demon Emperor of the next age!" and "You think to small, I'll diablerize God" etc. They got vast, esoteric plans to transcend.

                            Except Absimilliard who is like "Screw that, what about MY FACE!? MY BEAUTIFUL FAAAAAAACE!!" He was always described as the jock of the Antes. No interest in esoteric powers and concepts, left to snowball for fifteen thousand years is going to mean that he is way behind. Thats probably why the Nictuku, they are powerful enough to keep the other Antes off his back. And why they need to be so powerful, and so mentally restricted.
                            AFAIK most of what you wrote is pure conjecture:

                            1. Absimilliard embracing the nicktuku to slay the second generation? Where did you read that? No official "truth" on this exists, obviously.

                            2. Absimilliard being less powerful than other Antes? I don't think this was ever stated anywhere.

                            3. Absimilliard being a "jock"? He was said (no fact, legend) to be a masterful hunter and esoteric interest is not a way to determine the power of an ante in relation to another. The WoD is not D&D.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by blackshade View Post
                              ^ Where does the assumption that Absimilliard is weaker then younger antes come from?
                              I'm wondering this too. He's made out to be as scary as any of the others.

                              The only real "runt" among the Antediluvians is Augustus. Even Tremere gives Saulot a solid run for his money.


                              Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                                I don’t know Abby transmuting his blood so hard in order to make Kaiju’s with the incidental effect of making his whole clan have giganto blood was always interesting to me.

                                But that’s my point if Abby can be leagues behind other Antes some who are younger then him, why wouldn’t Baba Yaga the premier Shaman of her day be railroaded into being automatically beneath Vas whose just a soulless child given eternity to play with. She was a born trancendental genius and Vas was just born without scrupples...
                                This concept I like. But I disagree on the ritual to rebirth as fae though it makes sense, since returning to her mage self would be extremely overpowered even for her.

                                The thing I don't agree with is Vasilisa defeating Baba Yaga via diablerie. She killed her alright, but diablerizing her would mean in essence "becoming" her, someone who spares the truly virtuous, something Vasilisa has absolutely nothing of, so why would she consume Baba Yaga's soul?

                                - Saga

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