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Vampire 5th Edition Dark Ages (?) V5 Discussion

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  • Vampire 5th Edition Dark Ages (?) V5 Discussion

    So I was wondering, how would a V5 Dark Ages pan out. I mean, there's enough to think about the system, much of the changes were incorporated in-universe as Withering, Beckoning, Gehenna and other stuff, and thats all and good because the metaplot is moving forward, but what if it's moving backward? And worst of all, it's not blank backward, it's between a previous
    Dark Ages and all the modern Vampire the Masquerade and 5th edition, there is already a Dark Ages there (and you can't retcon it all).

    But most importantly, how the game would be (mechanically and lore-wise)? Would it be in the 13th century? 14th? Or maybe it would go back, before 1197? Would the Clans be the same as V5? Or they would get more related to the past Dark Age games? And what the theme would be? Long Night and War of the Princes still?

    Maybe there just isn't much chance a V5 Dark Ages is coming because there is just too much answers and hard calls to make, and the market isn't asking for a medieval vampire game.

    But what you people think?
    Personally I would like to see the team of Cult of the Blood Gods working on Dark Ages if any team would do it. I know that independent from how different it would be from my expectations it would be good.

  • #2
    What could be done is go back further, I think, which may give the writers some leeway towards changing the Clans, setting tropes somewhat.

    The actual 'Dark Ages’ tends to refer to the medieval period after the collapse of the Roman Empire. So maybe 8th or 9th century. Vampire: The Dark Ages sets itself in the 'High Medieval' period of about the 13th/14th century - so its always been a bit incorrect in it’s time period - although 'The Dark Ages’ sounds cool at least.

    Depending on what time and place the setting could be, the historical events would include the rise of the Frankish Empire (and the birth of Feudalism), the continuation of the Byzantine or Eastern Roman Empire, the Islamic domination of the Spanish peninsular and the Viking raids from Scandinavia, At this point, there would be no Clan Tremere, while I’d imagine the other Clans could be quite different too.

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    • #3
      I imagine they fudged a bit with their definition of the "Dark Ages" because they wanted the Tremere to be part of the book, and they had already established them as being only a thousand years old.

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      • #4
        Actually, I was thinking about Pre-Dark Ages Vampire while writing the post, and know I was just thinking how cool actually it could be. Imagine, 6th century or a bit after. Europe in shambles, "barbarian" kingdoms/tribes raiding everywhere, scandinavian invasions, normandy expanding, mongol hordes attacking, there is a lot of dramatic moments in the past. And the freedom of working before defined canon is more probable and interesting either way.
        But imagining all the Original 13 Clans as the playable clans sure is kind of weird (not counting Brujah being usurpers of "true" Brujah). But I love Cappadocians and I love Salubri, seing both in the fold seems awesome. Besides, no more thaumaturgy (yes, Banu Haqim I know), only dirty tactics, old Disciplines and crummy necromancy. Looks promising if possible.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post
          I imagine they fudged a bit with their definition of the "Dark Ages" because they wanted the Tremere to be part of the book, and they had already established them as being only a thousand years old.
          I don't know, kicking out Tremere might be a good move to make thing different. If not, it would not work, cuz Tremere Clan was very young in 1197, before that there wasn't even enough numbers or expansion to be called a Clan, it was yet the House Tremere.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post
            I imagine they fudged a bit with their definition of the "Dark Ages" because they wanted the Tremere to be part of the book, and they had already established them as being only a thousand years old.
            I think that too, and there was a big cross-over of latent material from Ars Magica (which is the game that House Tremere originated), that they possibly wanted to tap into.

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            • #7
              I just think the people who are working now with V5 might try to make it different. I mean, they are the most unvampiric of all Clans, and this Ars Magica business has ended long ago, with hardly any desire for a comeback. There is just too much stuff going on in there.
              What I would prefer is a remaking of the old Clans with V5 mentality. Like making a respectable Banu Haqim, Followers of Set and Ravnos (although this one is a bit hard).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Banu_Saulot View Post
                I mean, they are the most unvampiric of all Clans, .
                How so? Weather control was one of Dracula's original powers. Numerous vampires are shown to have the ability to make all the candles in the room light up, and cause doors to open and close. Movies as recent as "Hotel Transylvania" and as old as "Fright Night II" and "Vampire in Brooklyn" have examples of vampires performing what is essentially witchcraft. "Mockingbird Lane" also had a version of Dracula who also knew witchcraft.

                About the only thing unvampiric about them is the Hermetic trappings. Vampires tend to have a Satanic Witchcraft vibe to their magic.

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                • #9
                  So does a DAV5 open the door for real elders? that is the real question.

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                  • #10
                    I'd go for the year 1275 - keeping the tradition of upping the date with every edition. Also, Dark Ages have always been a bit schizophrenic, so to speak - blending late medieval weapons and armor, tournamanets, urbanization and other things (Hanseatic League) with high medieval historical events (especially the Crusades in Palestine and Egypt). 1275 seems like a decent compromize between these things.

                    Have a weapons armor list that actually matches the time!

                    Focus on the dicotomy of the clans and the different directions they are being pulled in. For example, the Brujah being split between the younger rebels and older philosophers, the Ventrue being split between the old guard nobels and the new merchant princes, etc.

                    Start off with a fairly narrow focus; The Holy Roman Empire. This allows for a lot of information about the time and explore the customs, more, atc. of the setting. Then expand with sourcebooks.

                    Dark Ages is my absolute favorite setting/game and I have PLENTY of ideas on how it could be done for V5.


                    Freelance Writer and Storyteller's Vault contributor. Find my work here: http://www.storytellersvault.com/ind...liate_id=17903

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                    • #11
                      If they are doing a DAV5, I want it to be thematicaly different than V5 : go back to 1195, to the height of the Cainite establissement : Mithras, Alexander, Michael. Let's play the powerful domains before the fall of Constantinople. It is a different time, a different focus, so it create a different game.

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                      • #12
                        I would be interested in something that rather than have a single, set date and timeline, it offered a sliding scale of opportunity. Everything from the Fall of Rome (395) to the Battle of Hastings (1066) to the crowning of Charlemagne as Emperor of the Romans (800) to the Mongol invasions (mid 13th century) and so. Have the ability to play in the place, and at the time, where the PCs can do the most damage.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jackob View Post
                          I'd go for the year 1275 - keeping the tradition of upping the date with every edition. Also, Dark Ages have always been a bit schizophrenic, so to speak - blending late medieval weapons and armor, tournamanets, urbanization and other things (Hanseatic League) with high medieval historical events (especially the Crusades in Palestine and Egypt). 1275 seems like a decent compromize between these things.
                          If you take the points as made before - that the period historians refer to as ’The Dark Ages’ is actually somewhere between the end of the Roman Empire and the turn of the first Millennium - then 1275 isn’t a compromise at all. It’s simply not The Dark Ages, historically speaking - it’s the High Medieval period.

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                          • #14
                            Dark Ages: Vampire calls out that "Dark Ages" is a purely setting-atmospheric term. It's not meant to be specifically indicative of the Early Middle Ages.

                            That aside, I think it would be neat for DAV5 to mirror V5's metaplot developments in the same way that Dark Ages: Vampire paralleled Revised's metaplot developments. When Revised had mass Gehenna hysteria and open war between the sects heating up, Dark Ages: Vampire had the Long Night heating up into the War of Princes. DAV5 could be set during another period of great crisis like the Black Death.

                            Another fun thought is setting it during the original Inquisition + Anarch Revolt to parallel V5's Second Inquisition + related turmoils.


                            Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post
                              Dark Ages: Vampire calls out that "Dark Ages" is a purely setting-atmospheric term. It's not meant to be specifically indicative of the Early Middle Ages
                              The writers are not dumb (and what else are they going to say?) but it has always been a criticism of the game’s title that essentially it is more about style than substance.

                              Moreover, the late medieval period is so overdone in RPG games anyway, that it’s a bit cliché. As suggested before, I think the main reason they went for the 13/14th century is possibly because they already had so much work done on it with Ars Magica previously. Vampire’s core concept is timeless enough to be set in any era though, and actually setting it in a tumultuous period like the Dark Ages proper could be a fantastic and fresh new setting for the game.

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