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Chimerstry in V5

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  • Chimerstry in V5

    With the penchant for V5 to combine the formerly specialty disciplines into the more traditional disciplines like Serpentis into Protean or Necromancy and Obtenebration into Oblivion which I like for the record would you see them moving Chimerstry into either Presence or Auspex as a valid alternative? I picked those two because it could be argued creating illusions is manipulating the senses like Presence does to emotions or that in the case of Auspex enhancing your own levels of perception could be twisted into the ability to manipulate others senses. Thoughts?

  • #2
    it seems more likely to me that it will become an amalgam of Obfuscate.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post
      With the penchant for V5 to combine the formerly specialty disciplines into the more traditional disciplines like Serpentis into Protean or Necromancy and Obtenebration into Oblivion which I like for the record would you see them moving Chimerstry into either Presence or Auspex as a valid alternative? I picked those two because it could be argued creating illusions is manipulating the senses like Presence does to emotions or that in the case of Auspex enhancing your own levels of perception could be twisted into the ability to manipulate others senses. Thoughts?
      I could see it being rolled into Obfuscate like how Obtenebration and Necromancy were rolled into Oblivion.

      While one might sum up Chimerstry as powers of illusion, it's also been described as the power to manipulate the illusory universe that is the reality everyone perceives. In this case, one might argue that the only things that are actually real in this perceived reality are the people and other entities within it. Continuing with this idea, like in Mage, reality is influenced by a consensus of beliefs, and while Chimerstry in this case could be said to allow the one using it to bend and alter reality, it suffers push back by the consensus and the disbelief of those who witness its use.

      I have a Dark Ages V5 chronicle in the works, and one of the players is an eastern Ravnos, so I've had to start converting Chimerstry to V5, which I'm calling Maya instead of Chimerstry. The rough description I gave above on Chimerstry is the theme and concept I am going with in it's design. Although I've had several other people help revise what I have so far, it's still a work in progress, which I technically only started earlier this month. If you'd like, I'd be happy to send you a link for the V5 Ravnos conversion I am working on. What I'm writing could conceivably be rolled into Obfuscate like I mentioned above, though for my Dark Ages chronicle I am almost certainly going to keep it as a separate Discipline.

      The Bane, Compulsion, and brief descriptions for Animalism and Fortitude I borrowed from a V5 homebrew site I found (written by ElmerG https://www.v5homebrew.com/wiki/Ravnos), and to save on time I'd rather spend working on my Dark Ages chronicle (I'm writing playable preludes for the PCs, and have written 75 pages so far), I copied/pasted the fluff text for a number of powers from prior editions, making alterations where needed, rather than completely rewriting the fluff text for powers I planned to convert to V5, so I can't take credit for those.

      I also have to give credit to Red Eye for their beautiful V5 Tzimisce and Vicissitude writeup. The presentation and formatting they used acted as a great template from which I began.
      Last edited by Archasimos; 01-26-2020, 06:14 PM.

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      • #4
        I would make it a Presence/Animalism amalgam. Something like:

        Dweomer (Presence 2; prerequisite Animalism power Sense the Beast) - create a static illusion that fools one of the victims senses per success on a contested roll of Manipulation+Presence verses the target's Wits+Composure. Targets with Auspex may add their rating in the discipline to the contested roll.

        Apparition (Presence 4; prerequisite Quell the Beast) - create a moving illusion that lasts until it is pierced by a target. Roll Composure+Presence, targets resist with a roll of Wits+Composure, adding in Auspex where the target possesses it, to pierce the illusion.

        Horrid Reality (Presence 5; prerequisite Subsume the Spirit) - subsume an individual in an alternate reality. Roll Manipulation+Presence versus the victim's Composure+Resolve.

        Combining the ability of Animalism to detect and manipulate the primitive or beastial natures of others with Presence's capacity to alter or dictate emotional responses would be what was causing the illusions. Such a combination would also be nearly unheard of outside of the Ravnos for the unusual nature of the combination. It would most likely be adopted by the Gangrel and Nosferatu - reaffirming the "cousin" nature of Gangrel/Ravnos and allowing an explanation as to why some Nosferatu warrens seem riddled with unsettling illusions.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JRRParker View Post
          Combining the ability of Animalism to detect and manipulate the primitive or beastial natures of others with Presence's capacity to alter or dictate emotional responses would be what was causing the illusions. Such a combination would also be nearly unheard of outside of the Ravnos for the unusual nature of the combination. It would most likely be adopted by the Gangrel and Nosferatu - reaffirming the "cousin" nature of Gangrel/Ravnos and allowing an explanation as to why some Nosferatu warrens seem riddled with unsettling illusions.
          I can see where your going with that, but I think Obfuscate make's more sense as it's powers already fool the senses, which is what Chimerstry does. I'd say either Obfuscate/Animalism makes the most sense as Animalism was already a Ravnos Discipline and the two Disciplines are found in the Gangrel and Nosferatu, so it would maintain those ties. Obfuscate/Presence might work but the Ravnos would have to lose either Fortitude or Animalism.

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          • #6
            I can see Chimerstry as some Obfuscate/Fortitude amalgams. They're still about deceiving the senses, but those deceptions are more "solid" than normal Obfuscate powers. V5 takes a lot of ideas from VtR 2e, and its version of Obfuscate has a lot of overlap with VtM Chimerstry.


            Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Archasimos View Post

              I could see it being rolled into Obfuscate like how Obtenebration and Necromancy were rolled into Oblivion.

              While one might sum up Chimerstry as powers of illusion, it's also been described as the power to manipulate the illusory universe that is the reality everyone perceives. In this case, one might argue that the only things that are actually real in this perceived reality are the people and other entities within it. Continuing with this idea, like in Mage, reality is influenced by a consensus of beliefs, and while Chimerstry in this case could be said to allow the one using it to bend and alter reality, it suffers push back by the consensus and the disbelief of those who witness its use.

              I have a Dark Ages V5 chronicle in the works, and one of the players is an eastern Ravnos, so I've had to start converting Chimerstry to V5, which I'm calling Maya instead of Chimerstry. The rough description I gave above on Chimerstry is the theme and concept I am going with in it's design. Although I've had several other people help revise what I have so far, it's still a work in progress, which I technically only started earlier this month. If you'd like, I'd be happy to send you a link for the V5 Ravnos conversion I am working on. What I'm writing could conceivably be rolled into Obfuscate like I mentioned above, though for my Dark Ages chronicle I am almost certainly going to keep it as a separate Discipline.

              The Bane, Compulsion, and brief descriptions for Animalism and Fortitude I borrowed from a V5 homebrew site I found (written by ElmerG https://www.v5homebrew.com/wiki/Ravnos), and to save on time I'd rather spend working on my Dark Ages chronicle (I'm writing playable preludes for the PCs, and have written 75 pages so far), I copied/pasted the fluff text for a number of powers from prior editions, making alterations where needed, rather than completely rewriting the fluff text for powers I planned to convert to V5, so I can't take credit for those.

              I also have to give credit to Red Eye for their beautiful V5 Tzimisce and Vicissitude writeup. The presentation and formatting they used acted as a great temple from which I began.
              Glad you liked some of the stuff that I wrote for it, particularly the Bane and Compulsion. If I may ask, are you planning on just expanding the Amalgams concept in your Maya power, or are you going back to Chimerstry as a Unique Discipline?

              Originally posted by False Epiphany View Post
              I can see Chimerstry as some Obfuscate/Fortitude amalgams. They're still about deceiving the senses, but those deceptions are more "solid" than normal Obfuscate powers. V5 takes a lot of ideas from VtR 2e, and its version of Obfuscate has a lot of overlap with VtM Chimerstry.
              That's what I did with my Ravnos homebrew powers above. Mental whammy given a limited physical form by drawing on Fortitude.
              Last edited by elmerg; 01-25-2020, 07:59 PM.

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              • #8
                We can end arguing about Critique of the Pure Reason and Kant. Our western idea of reality it is usually that Reality could be objective, but the senses are subjective. So Reality is unknowable. Obfuscate, cheating the perception, alters Realities.

                Furthermore, in first and second edition of Vampire, before Chimestry, Obfuscate used to produce hallucinations and stronger illusions.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by elmerg View Post

                  Glad you liked some of the stuff that I wrote for it, particularly the Bane and Compulsion. If I may ask, are you planning on just expanding the Amalgams concept in your Maya power, or are you going back to Chimerstry as a Unique Discipline?

                  That's what I did with my Ravnos homebrew powers above. Mental whammy given a limited physical form by drawing on Fortitude.
                  The Bane and Compulsion you wrote for the Ravnos looked spot on to me.

                  I'm going with Chimerstry/Maya as it's own Discipline, while using Maya/Fortitude Amalgams to create effects with limited physical form. I'll send you a link to my Google doc in case you want to see what I have so far. It's still a work in progress, and right now I'm taking a break from working on it until I finish writing the preludes for my Dark Ages game.

                  Last edited by Archasimos; 01-26-2020, 06:19 PM.

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