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[V5] What rules you like and what do you not?

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  • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    An interesting house rule by Matthew Dawkins in 1:12:00 here:

    https://utilitymuffinlabs.com/25-yea...ew-episode-153

    He suggests Gamemasters should allow players to substitute Clan Compulsions for Frenzying or Hunger as an option so you don't just go blood hungry.

    He says that "You shouldn't be making these kind of Hunger dice rolls if you're opening a window or chatting up a girl. Only when stressed."

    For those who didn't go listen to the clip.
    Dawkins is talking about instead of gaining Hunger on a failed Rouse Check, you take a Clan Compulsion when you fail a Rouse Check. KInd of an interesting house rule, but definitely more of a rule for games that are okay with roleplay triggers like the Compulsions.

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    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
      An interesting house rule by Matthew Dawkins in 1:12:00 here:

      https://utilitymuffinlabs.com/25-yea...ew-episode-153

      He suggests Gamemasters should allow players to substitute Clan Compulsions for Frenzying or Hunger as an option so you don't just go blood hungry.

      He says that "You shouldn't be making these kind of Hunger dice rolls if you're opening a window or chatting up a girl. Only when stressed."
      I didnt get it.
      We should not roll or we should roll without hunger dice in?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by blailton View Post

        I didnt get it.
        We should not roll or we should roll without hunger dice in?
        1. That you shouldn't roll Hunger Dice for most actions.
        2. That you should be able to substitute a compulsion for more violent hunger or frenzy.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • Originally posted by blailton View Post

          I didnt get it.
          We should not roll or we should roll without hunger dice in?
          Basically his context is he's talking about when you would gain Hunger from a failed Rouse Check, he'd have an option to take a Clan Compulsion in place of an increase in Hunger on that failure.

          To paraphrase from the video:

          ''If I was able to do it over again, I'd make the Compulsions more accessible. More a burning presence in the mind of all vampires. Let's say you fail, you could add a level of Hunger as an example; you could instead choose to indulge your Clan Compulsion.'

          and then

          'If I was to do the rule from today, instead of succumbing to bestial frenzy or hunger, I'd use a Clan Compulsion'. (which it seems like he's talking about the Bestial Failure which already does that, or the Hunger increase again). He talks about how the Compulsions work and how well he feels they work, then segues into 'people constantly complaining I"m always frenzying or I'm always hungry' and says , to paraphrase:
          'You shouldn't be really making that roll when you're just opening the window or putting on a suit or trying to chat up a girl in a bar. If there's no stress to the situation, don't worry about Hunger dice, just roll'.

          He talks about the Golden Rule and changing out the rules and not being a slave to the rules as written alongside this house ruled removal of Hunger from anything but stressful situations (which you can achieve already by using the take half/autosuccess rule anyway).

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          • Originally posted by elmerg View Post
            Basically his context is he's talking about when you would gain Hunger from a failed Rouse Check, he'd have an option to take a Clan Compulsion in place of an increase in Hunger on that failure.

            To paraphrase from the video:

            ''If I was able to do it over again, I'd make the Compulsions more accessible. More a burning presence in the mind of all vampires. Let's say you fail, you could add a level of Hunger as an example; you could instead choose to indulge your Clan Compulsion.'

            and then

            'If I was to do the rule from today, instead of succumbing to bestial frenzy or hunger, I'd use a Clan Compulsion'. (which it seems like he's talking about the Bestial Failure which already does that, or the Hunger increase again). He talks about how the Compulsions work and how well he feels they work, then segues into 'people constantly complaining I"m always frenzying or I'm always hungry' and says , to paraphrase:
            'You shouldn't be really making that roll when you're just opening the window or putting on a suit or trying to chat up a girl in a bar. If there's no stress to the situation, don't worry about Hunger dice, just roll'.

            He talks about the Golden Rule and changing out the rules and not being a slave to the rules as written alongside this house ruled removal of Hunger from anything but stressful situations (which you can achieve already by using the take half/autosuccess rule anyway).
            I like these ideas—I wish they'd made it into the corebook! And I hope the Player's Guide has things like this in it. I'm the sort of ST who likes having optional rules and knobs I can tweak to get the feel I want (which is why I like Requiem a lot).

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Draconis View Post

              I like these ideas—I wish they'd made it into the corebook! And I hope the Player's Guide has things like this in it. I'm the sort of ST who likes having optional rules and knobs I can tweak to get the feel I want (which is why I like Requiem a lot).
              I'd say this is the type of stuff we'll see (rather than LOL WE GONNA HAVE REVISED BACK IN PG!), since we've been told the rules stuff in there will be tweaks to be used in conjunction with the core rule book, not to replace the core book. Though I don't see why people are so resistant to the idea of just doing this themselves if it fits their games, regardless of it being an 'optional rule' or not. Since Dawkins talks about them pretty exclusively alongside the golden rule.

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              • The House Rules I would implement for V5

                * Touchstones can be anything that fits with the player character's convictions. An important family token, a fellow vampire, and so on. Make them more like Passions in Wraith.

                * Convictions can be anything related to your own personal morality.

                * You only make Hunger Dice in stressful situations like combat, matters of life and death, or when a matter is likely to provoke you.

                * You can substitute a Clan Compulsion acting up for a Frenzy.

                * Loresheets for Paths should exist that mean you don't get Stains if you commit evil acts in the name of your personal religion. They should absolutely not give you ANY benefit against them if you are doing them otherwise. I ****ing HATE people who use Paths as a way to cheat the Morality System.

                * You can buy as many Amalgam Disciplines or Extra Powers for your level of Discipline as you want. Helena should have like 16 different Presence 5 powers. Make them like rotes from mage.

                * If you achieve the maximum in a Discipline (5) and have sufficient Blood Potency (5+), you can buy "Elder Disciplines" that are a separate 1-5 level of a Discipline. Elder Presence, Elder Dominate, Elder Potence and so on. Elder Disciplines over 3 would be the Province of Storyteller Fiat.

                * Loresheets get a 5 point at character creation to be spent on, free of charge.
                Last edited by CTPhipps; 02-12-2020, 11:17 AM.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  The House Rules I would implement for V5

                  * Touchstones can be anything that fits with the player character's convictions. An important family token, a fellow vampire, and so on. Make them more like Passions in Wraith.

                  * Convictions can be anything related to your own personal morality.

                  * You only make Hunger Dice in stressful situations like combat, matters of life and death, or when a matter is likely to provoke you.

                  * You can substitute a Clan Compulsion acting up for a Frenzy.

                  * Loresheets for Paths should exist that mean you don't get Stains if you commit evil acts in the name of your personal religion. They should absolutely not give you ANY benefit against them if you are doing them otherwise. I ****ing HATE people who use Paths as a way to cheat the Morality System.

                  * You can buy as many Amalgam Disciplines or Extra Powers for your level of Discipline as you want. Helena should have like 16 different Presence 5 powers. Make them like rotes from mage.

                  * If you achieve the maximum in a Discipline (5) and have sufficient Blood Potency (5+), you can buy "Elder Disciplines" that are a separate 1-5 level of a Discipline. Elder Presence, Elder Dominate, Elder Potence and so on. Elder Disciplines over 3 would be the Province of Storyteller Fiat.

                  * Loresheets get a 5 point at character creation to be spent on, free of charge.
                  1. Completely agree, especially when looking at Elder vampires. They can connect to their family lineage, and fixate on one member of the family, but changing to another member of the family as the first ages out or dies is completely reasonable. Also, places. I believe in one of the scenarios you have a Bahari priestess that is really connected to her garden. This could be an example of a Touchstone related to a Path/Road.

                  2. Agreed as well. Am I personally missing something in the write up that says otherwise?

                  3. I can see this. Means some more book keeping and tracking for the GM and denoting when Hunger dice are needed or not. Reminds me of having to set specific difficulties in previous versions.

                  4. I could see this as well. The higher you go in the lore sheet, thematically the higher involved in the path you are. I would say making them like the Bloodline Lore Sheets, where you could only have one. This would tie in with your last point too.

                  5. I've suggested that going above 5 dots in a discipline allow you get that dot purchase in more levels of the power. buying your sixth dot in a discipline allows you to buy two level 3 powers, three level 2 powers, a level 1 and level 5, six level 1s and so on. Since many discipline rolls include your discipline rating, the would help Elders feel more powerful. Your rating max would still be determined by your Blood Potency.

                  6. I could certainly see this also. A modification to my previous idea was a slew of personalized powers that vampires who have achieved 5 dots in a discipline could purchase as a possible sixth dot.

                  7. 5 base points spread between Bloodline, Path and basic lore sheets. I could get behind this.

                  Comment


                  • What I like about it is also what I don't. So for the most part I'm ambivalent about V5, except for Lore Sheets, absolutely love the concept though not so much some of the actual ones.

                    I admire how baked into the mechanics the negatives of being a vampire are, that they thematics are ever present and drive players to explore actions they might not otherwise take, to compromise morally. And they are for the most part well designed. But my main problem is that it seems very difficult not to run the game in that mode without heavy modification. And having sim'ed a few things Hunger Dice feel really oppressive on what should be high competence roles. And not even the extreme 10 dice, 5 hunger, but fairly moderate 6-7 dice, 2-3 hunger. The level of risk, would make me adverse to rolling as a player, and to some extent as an ST averse to the potential of derail. As an idea I really like Hunger Dice, but not the execution. Also Resonance seems like an atrocious over engineered system that's just going to drag the pace of play.

                    And overall the extent to which player power levels have been pushed down compared to previous versions of Masquerade was omnipresent, and in my opinion overall excessive. The thing that made me double double take and start a thread on opinions was Exp gains being 1 per session as the default suggested rate. Requiem also by design massively dropped player power levels, went to new rating costs but even there the RAW expanded potential for bonus Exp compared to VtM Revised . And the thing with the Requiem comparison is that I was reminded very much reminded of the experience of reading through Requiem for the first time, and that sinking feeling of "this really isn't for us" (though as a gaming group we did ultimately make peace with Requiem via the Rome setting). Not really ideal having impulse purchased the £100 slip case set. I actually like the intent of resetting the power down in mechanics to match the setting, but I think it pushes it too far.

                    Overall I think V5 is going to one of those editions which people either love or hate and you aren't allowed to be in-between. I would be more upset with the situation if mechanics mattered at all in most material. As much as looking at the V20 was an amazing nostalgia buzz (and I'd never really looked at V20 until after not being entirely satisfied with V5) but it's like a greatest hits album. V5 is doing something new with the setting so I'm onboard with that. But I think I'm going to jettison the systems entirely rather than home-brew them into something which will work for us.

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                    • How many ST's are using the Resonance rules as written? I'd be curious to know if they slow down the narrative more so than feeding scenes already do. I know some groups prefer to play a much more intimate game where the night to night plight of feeding and mortal interaction is the bulk of the story but Im unsure if that is the norm in most VTM games.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Frontline989 View Post
                        How many ST's are using the Resonance rules as written? I'd be curious to know if they slow down the narrative more so than feeding scenes already do. I know some groups prefer to play a much more intimate game where the night to night plight of feeding and mortal interaction is the bulk of the story but Im unsure if that is the norm in most VTM games.

                        In my experience it doesn't slow down anything, really. It's just added description to the scene regarding the mortals that the PCs are encountering, nothing more. Assuming your feeding scenes involved a modicum of involvement with the humans, anyway.

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                        • You know I really think 'If I house rule this heavily it works' has gotta be a jarring flaw

                          There was nothing in V20 that you needed to houserule heavily to get working.


                          V5 is not VTM

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                          • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                            You know I really think 'If I house rule this heavily it works' has gotta be a jarring flaw

                            There was nothing in V20 that you needed to houserule heavily to get working.
                            …that very much wasn't my experience with V20. I houseruled major swaths of the corebook to make it playable at my table, and more than one group has told me to get DAV20 in order to play modern-day V20 because it improved so many aspects mechanically over the core.

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                            • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                              You know I really think 'If I house rule this heavily it works' has gotta be a jarring flaw

                              There was nothing in V20 that you needed to houserule heavily to get working.
                              HAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

                              Oh wait, you're serious.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                              • Yeah, I houseruled the hell of out V20, and for that matter the Classic WOD that preceded it, both to make it cleaner(I was basically using the Aberrant dice mechanics years before Aberrant first came out) and to make it fit more with my preference for Necroscope style vampires.

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